Unless I see convictions, I'm not sure why there's such an outrage (legal fees to bloggers aside, perhaps).

Seems like a pretty small price to pay to live in a country that doesn't routinely suck in almost every measurable way.

I dunno, maybe the outrage is on behalf of all those bloggers (or others) who can't afford the legal fees, so just decide that it's just too risky to make criticisms in the first place.

But since you've already indicated that you're OK having no speech protections in the first place, I don't imagine a little thing like chilling speech concerns you either. At least, not as long as "those people" are chilled.

Depends entirely on what's being chilled, I suppose. Making fun of public figures, probably not so much. Spreading falsehoods about public figures? Perhaps.

What the heck is your problem? It was entirely appropriate - near mandatory - that the president give a speech on the occasion. The event was nonpartisan, with the republican governor giving a speech, and at least the president's speech was not partisan in nature.

The problem isn't the first amendment.
The problem is the complete lack of common sense in the general public, refusal to compromise across party lines, and refusal to participate in open dialogues by one side or another.

With regards to the shooting, that's only a symptom of our problem.
Without getting real specific, i think the US is in lots of trouble.

Oh please, Jan Brewer was practically booed off the stage. Plus it was supposed to be a freaking memorial service, but with all the cheering and such you would think it was nothing more than another Obama political rally.

And that was Obama's fault? The dude looked as unimpressed by that as anyone.

Let it go for just one freaking second would ya? Even Glenn freaking Beck thought the speech was good. Most every righty did..

Yet he did nothing to step in and stop it. He's the freaking president. He spoke about civility and such. Yet did not even rebuke the crowd for their behavior. He could have said anything. "this is not the time or place for this". "we're here to remember the victims not turn this in to a political event." Nope no such thing. I will admit it was probably one of the best speeches he has given, but come on you're telling me that he couldn't have tried to set a more somber and respectful tone with the crowd?

Are you telling me that if the reverse had happened when speeches were made during the 9/11 memorial that you wouldn't have been just a bit upset by that?

I think perhapsh you have the words president mixed up with emperor or sumsuch.

I live in China. I currently have freedom of speech only because some official in Beijing currently deems it convenient to national interests to exclude Hong Kong from the Great Firewall. I am intensely aware of it every time something bad happens north of the border and there's a news blackout. Or when a Nobel Peace Prize Winner gets sent to prison for writing an online petition. Frankly I am disgusted that so many people who live under the protection of enforceable constitutions and sound institutions and representative democracies treat their civil liberties in such a cavalier manner. You cannot have the government stop people from telling lies. Who do you propose making the arbiter of truth?

But we CAN stop people from telling lies, and we specifically DO. Just as we also prevent people from being able to buy poison labeled as medicine, we can also stop people from harming each other with words. The ever-quoted "yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater' example aside, we have to have a way to stop swindlers and con men.

Um, no... but if he made an effort, it would have made all the difference to me. At least then I could say he tried. At that point it wholly becomes an issue with the crowd and I would be all over them about it instead. And hand gestures to have them settle down so he can complete the next stanza of his speech do not count.

It comes down to actions speak louder than words. Sincerity goes a long way. So yes, to me it looked more like him taking political advantage of the situation than actually caring about the victims. And before I get jumped on that comment. Yes, it was obvious that Bush went into Iraq on the back of the world trade center attack. HUGE blunder on his part as far as I'm concerned. No reason we should have ever started that up again and I said so from the out set. He rode that pony far too long to get other crap done as well and congress was his willing attendants for all of it.

GAH!! time to go get my blood from a boil to a low simmer.

This, right here. I don't think Fox News should be shut down. I think the way to beat propoganda is by discrediting it by making it look rediculous. And for most of the country, Fox News blares blather. Probably all liberals believe that, and enough Republicans to shunt any kind of majority opinion away from Fox News. I see Fox as a problem, but its a problem that many, many people recognize, enough that I am not worried about its "news" changing the country too drastically. In fact, they've helped cause splits in the party they most support, championing social conservatives and courting the fringe while leaving most (actual) libertarians and many fiscal conservatives in the dust.

So, we shouldn't shut them down. We should actively discredit them again and again and again, laughing at their bull***t.



I am amused at this response because the ONLY news outfit I know that commented in this fashion was Fox. The ONLY outfit. None of the networks commented on the audience (not ABC or NBC, which I was switching between), none of the other cable networks, from what I've seen online. Only Fox had the balls to criticize a memorial service. Which makes me feel that you only saw Fox's argument, bought the argument, and now you feel miffed toward the president cause he didn't mourn people "the right way." That's just...I mean, it's so silly! Like, snort giggle silly! What?? Seriously, the crowd "cheered too much?" Ha!

And frankly, Mr. Stuffypants, why can't honoring the dead include some cheering? Why can't we cheer at a 9/11 memorial that honors the lives and the love of those who died? Why does death always have to be so goddamn solemn? Hell, at the German/Polish Catholic funerals I've been to, the funeral bit was for crying the memorial bit was for laughing, telling jokes, eating tons of food and getting tipsy while loudly telling stories of the person who passed. Not everyone celebrates the lives of the dead by keeping completely silent.

actually I have watched almost no news on the subject believe it or not. But I may be brainwashed if I am jumping to the same conclusions as Fox News.

Also, cheering and celebrating the lives of the fallen is one thing. Being completely rude to someone before they barely have a chance to speak at an event like this is something completely different. It's just wrong and very disrespectful. Couldn't be one of those times when all of the petty differences were set aside? Nope, of course not.

Fair enough. Then I go with the Stuffypants argument.