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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:23 am 
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Yeah, but most protestants don't think that condoms, birth control pills and IUDs are immoral. The Quiverfull nutters being a major exception.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:15 pm 
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One thing I find interesting here is that even a lot of pro-life groups are kind of downplaying this ruling, trying to assure people that abortion is not actually outlawed across the board. Example:

https://twitter.com/LifeIssuesUSA/statu ... 2246053891

This indicates to me that they know abortion bans are highly unpopular and fear a backlash. Of course, this is also happening as many states are letting near-total bans go into effect. May we all live in interesting times!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:29 pm 
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Whether we wish it or not.

But just a reminder: abortion itself is specifically not to be discussed here (Pete's rules). And honestly, a thread about Trump really isn't the best place to be discussing Dobbs except to the extent that it may directly affect him (which it very well might). If we're going to discuss the current Supreme Court, their attitude towards civil rights, how it may all play out, and etc; then it probably should have its own thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:03 pm 
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sycasey wrote:
May we all live in interesting times!


We all do.

There will be studies in the future of the psychosocial impact of covid; that alone has condemned our entire generation to Interesting Times.

...more than that is just overkill.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:01 pm 
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weremensh wrote:
abortion itself is specifically not to be discussed here (Pete's rules).


Was not aware of that! Okay.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:00 pm 
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Noting that the latest witness in the 1/6 hearings has testified that Trump not only knew the people heading to his rally were armed, but that he ordered the magnetometers turned off so no one would lose their weapons before heading to Capitol Hill? That he actively tried to fight a Secret Service agent for control of a car to take himself to the attack? And that he knew/planned for/wanted the violence, and to that end refused to call for it to stop? Now that could well belong in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:09 am 
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Ok, to be fair: the Secret Service is allowing that he did have a temper tantrum when they wouldn't take him to the scene of his coup, but have offered to testify that he didn't actually try to grab the wheel. Ms. Hutchinson's second hand description of the scene was off in that detail. His media partners in crime are trying to pretend that's the detail that matters in her entire testimony.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:32 pm 
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One further thought about Ms. Hutchinson's testimony. If Trump really did repeatedly break White House china, and the total value of said china came to $1,000 or more (the average value of the Obama china was about $100 a plate); then that's Destruction of Federal Property and carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison. It's also the kind of prosecution that any second year law student could handle.

It would be entertaining to me if that turns out to be Trump's Capone conviction; the charge that comes out of nowhere which is functionally impossible to beat.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:19 pm 
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weremensh wrote:
Ok, to be fair: the Secret Service is allowing that he did have a temper tantrum when they wouldn't take him to the scene of his coup, but have offered to testify that he didn't actually try to grab the wheel. Ms. Hutchinson's second hand description of the scene was off in that detail. His media partners in crime are trying to pretend that's the detail that matters in her entire testimony.

Seems to me the thing that matters the most is when she directly heard him saying he wanted to turn off the metal detectors and let the rioters in with their weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:59 pm 
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Exactly, the bit about the metal detectors is the most important and the most credible part of her testimony. Which is exactly why Fox News is trying to muddy the waters with "if grabbing the secret service agent was hearsay then eVErytHiNg Is HeaRsAY."

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:07 am 
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Now that the video of the occasion has come out, it may not even have been all that inaccurate to say that Trump went for the driver and/or the wheel. Well, as soon as someone present for the occasion actually does come forward and testify under oath that he didn't do it (and answer any other questions put to them), then we might want to regard attempting to grab the wheel as dodgy. Until then? Hers is the only formal testimony and what will go on the record.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:47 am 
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Until I see actual criminal charges filed against Trump AND he is hauled to court in handcuffs, I reckon this going to go the same way as all the other hearings on his crimes. That is the Democrats will wring their hands and try to turn it into another fundraising opportunity, the Republicans will invent their alternate reality, and their strategic undermining of the nation 's democracy will continue. They've pretty damn near got permanent minority rule locked in.

The fact that Trump is undoubtedly guilty of inciting an insurrection will not matter when the majority of Republican voters do not believe that the insurrection was wrong, and Republican politicians have no reason to stop pandering to that belief.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:27 pm 
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Eh, they've been the evil for half a century now. Not much we can do about that but functionally disnfranchise them by taking away their ability to rule from a minority, and so long as some of them carry Democratic party cards (Sinemanchin, say), that will take some doing.

But that said: Trump's bestest buddy Bannon just found himself looking at two years in a DC lockup. Telling the 1/6 Committee to stuff it may just have started requiring a great deal more courage than professional Trumpies own. It'll be interesting to watch it play out.

Oh, and I had to chuckle at the Republican moron telling the 1/6 Committee to save their records so the Republicans can use them to their own admittedly criminal ends. No worries; the DOJ will have them all long before any Republican committee head can say boo, and they won't be coming back any time before 2025.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:55 am 
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The state of democracy in the US looks to be getting worse. Half of Americans think the country is heading towards civil war and 20% of them believe that they will soon have to take up weapons against their political opponents.

Let me repeat that for the folks in the back, one in five adults in America are fantasizing about personally shooting their political opponents at some point in the not too distant future.

So the Republicans' pursuit of power and the Democrats' complacency rise from misgovernance to playing with fire. The US has never been the best example of representative democracy as a system of government, only the loudest. But if it falls (back) into some form of apartheid pseudo-authoritarianism, there's no way that won't have a domino effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:52 pm 
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Too true. But in the mean time, the FBI just raided Trumpland Florida (Mar a Lago); a no-knock warrant which even cleaned out his safe. The various investigators in Georgia and New York are probably already filing paperwork with the DOJ for copies.

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