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Lord Golbez
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Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 2:16 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:50 pm Posts: 1979
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That's a fair point. Tabby might be quite confused about what to do with her.
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randomlanguage
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Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 6:56 am |
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:32 pm Posts: 1708
Location: under a pile of papers
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swmartian wrote: I think Torg has an interesting duality that is almost as black and white as Riff's, but certainly with some quirks. Torg is clearly an empath and connects with most living creatures, to a point. He wants to see the good in other sentient beings and often finds it. I'm not sure how much of that is "I can fix her" as much as it is simply finding the good, bonding with it, and forming a mutual loyalty from that connection. Kiki fits that version of Torg - with a much more innocent viewpoint.
Torg's lack of innocence is revealed when a sentient being poses a direct threat to him or his friends...
I think Schlock was an interesting character in that sense for both of them. I note that Torg never connected with him, never tried to find the good and bond with it. Schlock was just "there" for him, and he left the "relationship" to Riff. Whereas Riff did connect with Schlock, and although he understood Schlock to be problematic, he continued to work with him and/or use him as needed. Interestingly, 4U City did not change this view for Riff. Not really. At least not immediately. He thought he saw himself in Schlock, and perhaps empathized to a point, which we usually see as Torg's role. Lord Golbez wrote: I think that's partially because Riff's black and white approach often has less to do with perceived moral/ethical behavior and more to do with perceived innate nature (i.e. "monsters" need to be eliminated). Schlock, as monstrous as his behavior was, was still human, so Riff probably didn't view him in through the same lens as vampires, demons, etc. Great points! I think this distinction is directly addressed in Riff and Torg's different reaction when Sam is both in danger and a potential danger. We can see this distinction in the way that both Riff and Torg come to terms with the various challenges they see to those worldviews. We could perhaps also categorize these two views as prevention vs. retribution. In fighting the monsters, Riff might see himself as preventing future dangers, whereas Torg's actions are reactions to betrayals. From a reaction perspective, Torg can investigate causes in order to gauge his retribution according to blame. Indeed, when events challenge these perspectives is when the characters grow. A great example is the parallel scenes of each of them on buses, (if I remember correctly and will try to find)
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CheeseWhisper
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Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 7:46 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 3699
Location: Right behind you.
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Zillatain wrote: Lord Golbez wrote: tube_rat wrote: Doesn't look like tabby went into the book. Who wants to bet he ends up possessing gwynn? I find it unlikely, unless it's somehow only for the briefest of moments, because otherwise Gwynn would end up dead, and I just don't see her dying that way. She's not human anymore. Can she be possessed? Now if she can be possessed and Tabby does possess her, there's no organs to expel. She's just paper. I had not thought of that.
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GUIGUI
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2025 3:39 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:00 am Posts: 1211
Location: Belgium, the true land of the french fries (no its not the france, trust me)
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On a different subject, it's interesting that, of all her friends, it's Zoë who can effectively use the spell that bind super-natural being to a book, because, if Gwynn had any kind of means to control who could actually learn to use that spell, she wouldn't want it any other way.
My point is, Gwynn's nature now make so she could also be captured by this spell and Zoë is the person she trust the most, might she ever need to be restrained.
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CheeseWhisper
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2025 8:49 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 3699
Location: Right behind you.
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GUIGUI wrote: On a different subject, it's interesting that, of all her friends, it's Zoë who can effectively use the spell that bind super-natural being to a book, because, if Gwynn had any kind of means to control who could actually learn to use that spell, she wouldn't want it any other way.
My point is, Gwynn's nature now make so she could also be captured by this spell and Zoë is the person she trust the most, might she ever need to be restrained. Holy cow. That's another really good point. I hadn't considered that she could now be imprisoned in the book.
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Spirantz
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2025 9:40 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:44 am Posts: 2585
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CheeseWhisper wrote: GUIGUI wrote: On a different subject, it's interesting that, of all her friends, it's Zoë who can effectively use the spell that bind super-natural being to a book, because, if Gwynn had any kind of means to control who could actually learn to use that spell, she wouldn't want it any other way.
My point is, Gwynn's nature now make so she could also be captured by this spell and Zoë is the person she trust the most, might she ever need to be restrained. Holy cow. That's another really good point. I hadn't considered that she could now be imprisoned in the book. So Gwynn is equivalant, in this regard, to Torg's pants?
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CheeseWhisper
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2025 9:50 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 3699
Location: Right behind you.
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Spirantz wrote: CheeseWhisper wrote: GUIGUI wrote: On a different subject, it's interesting that, of all her friends, it's Zoë who can effectively use the spell that bind super-natural being to a book, because, if Gwynn had any kind of means to control who could actually learn to use that spell, she wouldn't want it any other way.
My point is, Gwynn's nature now make so she could also be captured by this spell and Zoë is the person she trust the most, might she ever need to be restrained. Holy cow. That's another really good point. I hadn't considered that she could now be imprisoned in the book. So Gwynn is equivalant, in this regard, to Torg's pants? More to the point, she is (to some degree) monstrous.
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Spirantz
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2025 10:03 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:44 am Posts: 2585
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CheeseWhisper wrote: Spirantz wrote: So Gwynn is equivalant, in this regard, to Torg's pants? More to the point, she is (to some degree) monstrous. 
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Lord Golbez
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2025 5:26 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:50 pm Posts: 1979
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I'm amused by the implication that Gwynn is more pantslike than demon or fey.
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tube_rat
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2025 7:09 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:26 am Posts: 581
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Lord Golbez wrote: I'm amused by the implication that Gwynn is more pantslike than demon or fey. Want to know why gwynn is pants like? She's good in an emergency. 
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Spirantz
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:24 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:44 am Posts: 2585
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tube_rat wrote: Lord Golbez wrote: I'm amused by the implication that Gwynn is more pantslike than demon or fey. Want to know why gwynn is pants like? She's good in an emergency.  Spirantz likes this post.
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kromiller
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:24 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:19 am Posts: 427
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tube_rat wrote: Lord Golbez wrote: I'm amused by the implication that Gwynn is more pantslike than demon or fey. Want to know why gwynn is pants like? She's good in an emergency.  AH HAA HAA HAA HAAAAA! I spit my water out! Good one! What if Torg's pants ARE monstrous. So...could be the same thing. But, on a more serious note, the thought of Gwynn being monstrous enough to be trapped in the book is sobering. *SIGH* She has such a COMPLEX character.
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CheeseWhisper
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2025 10:23 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:40 pm Posts: 3699
Location: Right behind you.
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Given that the book of Uhglee seems to reveal the true nature of its tenants... I think if Gwynn gets put into the book at some point, we're going to have a VERY interesting visual representation of her character.
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Spirantz
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2025 11:02 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:44 am Posts: 2585
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CheeseWhisper wrote: Given that the book of Uhglee seems to reveal the true nature of its tenants... I think if Gwynn gets put into the book at some point, we're going to have a VERY interesting visual representation of her character. Here's one true nature, but perhaps too abstract. I doubt that this would be used, TBH. I'd assume it'd be something more literal such as a sad paper woman or a raging paper witch, depending on her state at the time. Also, ha. The witch has a pet cat anima. Fitting. I just got that.
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Lord Golbez
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2025 10:19 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:50 pm Posts: 1979
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It was debated even in the course of the arc whether the anima really does represent true nature.
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