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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:56 pm 
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And could this in the first panel be... Anise, Coriander and I forget?
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-21

If Yffi is Symmachus, then has Symmachus been working with/ tricking the Bug for this long?

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:51 am 
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ong wrote:
superhunnybear wrote:
darchon wrote:
I have to wonder if Yffi is actually Riff, after gaining greater mastery of magic and using time travel to go back into the past... the way he reacted when he saw Chaz, for example. Probably not, since he doesn't seem to have any (exploding) tech on hand... but interesting to consider.

There is the similarity in the naming...


And K'z'k, when possessing Gwynn, was calling him "Riffyyyy"
One such occurence: https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=10#1999-02-01

Doesn't even have to be the Niftyverse Riff...

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:57 am 
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ong wrote:
And could this in the first panel be... Anise, Coriander and I forget?
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-21

If Yffi is Symmachus, then has Symmachus been working with/ tricking the Bug for this long?

The link is off by one strip, but wow, that thing that the Bug is communicating with sure seems to be a reference to the three of them!

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:12 am 
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superhunnybear wrote:
ong wrote:
And could this in the first panel be... Anise, Coriander and I forget?
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-21

If Yffi is Symmachus, then has Symmachus been working with/ tricking the Bug for this long?

The link is off by one strip, but wow, that thing that the Bug is communicating with sure seems to be a reference to the three of them!


Oops, you're right, that should have linked to the strip right after that one.
let him check his notes

Here's the correct one too, for reference
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-25

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:25 am 
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ong wrote:
superhunnybear wrote:
ong wrote:
And could this in the first panel be... Anise, Coriander and I forget?
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-21

If Yffi is Symmachus, then has Symmachus been working with/ tricking the Bug for this long?

The link is off by one strip, but wow, that thing that the Bug is communicating with sure seems to be a reference to the three of them!


Oops, you're right, that should have linked to the strip right after that one.
let him check his notes

Here's the correct one too, for reference
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-25

It's also shaped like a big Y, to point the obvious.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:26 pm 
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ong wrote:
superhunnybear wrote:
ong wrote:
And could this in the first panel be... Anise, Coriander and I forget?
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-21

If Yffi is Symmachus, then has Symmachus been working with/ tricking the Bug for this long?

The link is off by one strip, but wow, that thing that the Bug is communicating with sure seems to be a reference to the three of them!


Oops, you're right, that should have linked to the strip right after that one.
let him check his notes

Here's the correct one too, for reference
https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?chapter=73#2021-05-25

Oooh. Nice catch!! That would be Anise, Basil, & Coriander (A, B, C).

I'm still not sure why the focus in on Symachus... The contraption for sight could just be due to the eyeballs disintegrating with the rest of the flesh (probably faster than most of it...) on whoever the "undead" is. I would simply point out that "Y" appears to K'Z'K soon after Allie's "death". Just sayin'....

Not sure of the connection, but Pete makes it a point to have Bast/Basphomy contact Allie and she is somehow also connected to the present day plot that is still unfolding... Interestingly, although the visit establishes that Allie is in communication (of sorts) with Dunuloa, the visit also establishes that Dunuloa disapproves of the Book of Bhad. Given that Allie is the original producer of the Book of Bhad, I think that strengthens my argument that Allie is Yffi. However, Dunuloa disapproves, which makes me wonder just where Allie found that magic to start with....

Did we miss an competitor of Allie somewhere? The cult members appeared particularly ineffective - too much so to have created Yffi. Hmm.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:25 pm 
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swmartian wrote:
Did we miss an competitor of Allie somewhere? The cult members appeared particularly ineffective - too much so to have created Yffi. Hmm.


Actually, we ARE missing someone! Not a competitor per se, but someone who got completely overlooked both times around the Liber family saga: Allie's supposedly useless son. I mean, the plague got him too apparently, but as we know, people killed offscreen are people who aren't dead yet. Or in this case, undead yet.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:07 am 
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Lord Golbez wrote:
I don't have complete spec on this yet, but I think Yffi must be from Mohkadun. He knows too much about everything to just be some wizard who came along in the Middle Ages.

Either that or maybe the Never.

A counterargument would be that Torg knows most of the same things Yffi knows and he's just some guy from the modern era. But that's just because Torg has bungled his way into firsthand experience of all this stuff. How did Yffi learn all this?

Symachus , Riff's distant ancestor. He was blinded, and made withered. Iffy is wearing a device to replace his eyes.

https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?ch ... 2014-05-08

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Wow. Good catch. It does somewhat bolster the Yffi = Allie theory, but at least we know Yffi's been arpund simce at least the time of Siphy. That certainly doesn't rule out Symachus, who was around well beforw Allie though. Indeed, I find it a bit suspicjous that Allie would even ostensibly help out the bug in any way, particularly so soon after we had last seen her. It's kind of reasonable to surmise that the info Y gave K'Z'K may have led to Siphy's demise. Although that probably wasn't Y's aim, would Allie have been that far gone as to recklessly put her granddaughter in danger? Possibly, I don't know though ....

By the way, if Yffi is Symachus, I imagine his plans will place him right in Dunuloa's crosshairs. She seemed to either be ignorant of his role in her brother's and mother's deaths or mostly forgotten about it (perhaps satisfied with the punishment dealt by her father). In spite of the power he's accumulated I would not think getting back in her sights is an enviable position to be in.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:55 pm 
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Well, I haven't convinced myself that Yffi = Allie yet. Mostly because I am usually wrong when I spec. However, we do know that Allie enjoys manipulating. I can see her playing the Bug against Farahn and vice versa. Perhaps because she had to kill her father in order to fulfill his wishes, she has takes the mission to heart completely - and the mission has a higher priority than her offspring.

If Yffi is Allie, there is an interesting bit of hypocrisy there. Quint gave Allie specific rules, which she then (mostly) ignored. Presumably Edda is allowed to be consumed by the Book because she committed the sin of breaking Yffi's rules. And again, Edda just seems to be a pawn in Yffi's game. Yffi knew that Edda was headstrong and would likely give in to temptation at least to a point. Yffi basically handed Edda to the Bug (playing him against Farahn), and then after letting the Bug think that Yffi was on his side, betrayed him in the end.

The fate web is very much involved in all of this. There was a spider present when Edda was spat out as a book, and one or two hanging around the bench that appeared to be made in Yffi's image. Quint made a comment about Dunuloa's guidance and fate as he was dying. Yffi can at least view the fate web - is (s)he also manipulating it? Or is fate on his(her) side?

Note that there were also a spider present when Sam was coronated and when Sin'thea La'morte was talking with Teresa...


Last edited by swmartian on Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:06 pm 
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I still think Yiffi is either Symachus or a descendant thereof.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:01 pm 
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Oooh. Oooh. Oooh!

I was just reading over my second paragraph. Yffi = Quint.

<shrug> Just sayin'....

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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:23 am 
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swmartian wrote:
The fate web is very much involved in all of this. There was a spider present when Edda was spat out as a book, and one or two hanging around the bench that appeared to be made in Yffi's image. Quint made a comment about Dunuloa's guidance and fate as he was dying. Yffi can at least view the fate web - is (s)he also manipulating it? Or is fate on his(her) side?



Very nice breakdown! But also, I would like to selfishly point to all these appearances of spiders to support my spec that whoever Y is, the Fate Spiders are somehow guiding or controlling his/her moves. Remember that Edda was spat out of the book at the exact time needed to take out the demon that Riff accidentally released from the Book of Uglee.

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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:27 am 
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Dodger77 wrote:
I still think Yiffi is either Symachus or a descendant thereof.


I think Yiffi is Symachus, and his ultimate goal is to replace one of the pillars to be the ulimate god (protoata). Instead, he'll replace poopy pants as being the pillar , and poopy pants can go to hell.

Plus, being one of the pillars is not going to be all that it is cracked up to be.

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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:25 am 
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Re-reading the past few week's strips, and the threads here and in the reaction chat, it prompted a few speculative thoughts...

As has been pointed out, Yffi (and Anise, Basil, Coriander) showed up symbolically a while back (the Y-shaped symbol with 1, 2 and 3 points at the ends) when the Bug is seen communicating with someone other than Farahn (And now that we KNOW that the symbol represents communication with Yffi, or at the very least thru A/B/C on behalf of him.)

So, unless the Bug is purposely mis-gendering Yffi, or somehow completely unaware of Yffi's gender, we can say that Yffi is male. The only representations of Allie were female. That doesn't completely rule out a gender switch, of course, but we have the Bug speaking to a 'Mister' VS. the memorial statue to Allie, clearly represented as female (in remembrance.) Just saying that it would be quite an out of thin air for Ally to be Mister Y...

(And before I continue, I have to admit that every time I have seen 'Mister Y' in print, it does make me think 'mystery', even though it would lose some of that impact when 'heard'.)

Yffi could still be Riff(y), especially if he is a future version or one from a different timeline. But he would have to be a Riff who has discovered/obtained a 'fortune of time' to accomplish his 'ultimate victory' - certainly doesn't seem like the Niftyverse Riff of the present that we know, at least.

And Yffi COULD be someone we haven't met, or at least barely know, and maybe even a personified spider (but one on some sort of personal power trip, if so...) More on this in a moment.

However, consider these points:
• The implied history that the Bug has with his 'ol buddy' Yffi
• The fact that the Bug 'calls' Mister Y to try to 'get [him] out of here'
• The Bug's later brief confident moment where he assumes that Mister Y is indeed about to get him out of here.
• The Bug tries to convince Mister Y to release him so he'd be 'free to do the things you'd like me to do'
• Yffi, when revealed to be 'the Lich' is extremely (naturally, at least) blind to the point of no eye holes really left
• He has an abnormally prolonged 'life' (or at least 'undeath')
•And he has a 'fortune of time' giving him hope for his...
• 'Ultimate victory'

Sure points pretty strongly to Yffi = Symachus, with the evidence FOR this becoming stronger almost strip by strip, in my opinion!

(Oh, and about the spiders and Yffi, we know that at least a few of the gods of Mokhadun had access to the time web, not just the Krig/Uncle Time and Kronus/Father Time, so why not a 'former' God of Justice?)

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