Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Sluggy Related Forums » Reactions




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:55 pm 
Admin of Slight Inconvenience
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:07 pm
Posts: 6063
Location: Someplace other than where I am.
Friday has absorbed the POWER from the other days of the week! It will now fight the galaxy!

And when that's done... THE UNIVERSE IS NEXT!!


----
Vote for Sluggy Freelance at Top Web Comics.
Remember to vote every day.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:28 am 
Member of the Fraternal Order of the Emergency Pants
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3412
AOL: Dodger724
Location: Relative Obscurity
Methinks the language nerds are going to be apoplectic.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:00 am 
Offline
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 64
Dodger77 wrote:
Methinks the language nerds are going to be apoplectic.


Not really. It's true that "thou" is used to indicate familiarity, which is the opposite of how it's being used here. But I keep my expectations low when reading Sluggy.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:51 am 
Offline
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:58 am
Posts: 142
Oooh...teensy reflection in the orb on the staff.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:16 am 
Offline
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:05 am
Posts: 22
jackal59 wrote:
Dodger77 wrote:
Methinks the language nerds are going to be apoplectic.


Not really. It's true that "thou" is used to indicate familiarity, which is the opposite of how it's being used here. But I keep my expectations low when reading Sluggy.


Largely to indicate familiarity, but if someone just saved your life, I think that they can be excused a faux pas or two. If you want to read my apoplexy in full, just look at my "Great war on typos" post for this strip.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:45 pm 
Offline
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:47 am
Posts: 203
Tips for writing archaic English :) :
who/whom, thou/thee, ye/you (the plural of thou/thee) work the same way as we/us, I/me, he/him.
annnnnnd "I do", "thou dost", "he/she/it doth".
"I wot", "Thou wost", "he/she/it wot", "dost (thou) wit?"

Easy :)

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:38 pm 
Admin of Slight Inconvenience
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:07 pm
Posts: 6063
Location: Someplace other than where I am.
Now Pete just needs to come in and say, "In the Sluggy Universe, this is how they spoke back then."

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:46 pm 
Member of the Fraternal Order of the Emergency Pants
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3412
AOL: Dodger724
Location: Relative Obscurity
Mayamoodybaby wrote:
jackal59 wrote:
Dodger77 wrote:
Methinks the language nerds are going to be apoplectic.


Not really. It's true that "thou" is used to indicate familiarity, which is the opposite of how it's being used here. But I keep my expectations low when reading Sluggy.


Largely to indicate familiarity, but if someone just saved your life, I think that they can be excused a faux pas or two. If you want to read my apoplexy in full, just look at my "Great war on typos" post for this strip.

I knew it.

:aylee:

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:42 am 
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 42
Location: DFW, TX, USA
Zillatain wrote:
Now Pete just needs to come in and say, "In the Sluggy Universe, this is how they spoke back then."


I feel like he's rollin' with the trollin' here.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:43 pm 
Offline
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:32 pm
Posts: 1641
Location: under a pile of papers
Chickenhead wrote:
Oooh...teensy reflection in the orb on the staff.

That's creepy...

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:11 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:26 am
Posts: 453
Dodger77 wrote:
Dodger77 wrote:
Methinks the language nerds are going to be apoplectic.

I knew it.

:aylee:

frankly, it reads a little strange anyhow. i was reading the typos thread and their corrections somehow make it better. i'm only a grammar nerd not a full on language nerd. :torg:

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:47 am 
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 425
Location: Massachusetts
Chickenhead wrote:
Oooh...teensy reflection in the orb on the staff.


Oooh ... that's not good. I mean, it's really good art and plotting, but not so good for the young lady. Nice catch.

So this is the guy who can make animated sentient talking death traps, but can't give them a decent riddle to work with?

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:46 pm 
Offline
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:35 pm
Posts: 5
Pete, in case you're interested:

"Middle Ages English" was actually what we today call "Middle English". If you heard someone speak it, you would probably not understand a word. If you saw it written, you would probably not understand a word. What you're writing in the comic is certainly not supposed to be Middle English (unless you literally don't want any readers to understand what the characters are saying).

Modern English began a hundred years or so before Shakespeare's works. I think THAT is what you're trying to emulate, something like Shakespearean English. Even though it's modern English, it's very old, archaic modern English. We can understand it, mostly, but some words and usages are out of date or even unknown.

The use of the pronoun "thou" (and "thee", and "thy") is a case in point. It is just the singular of "you", what you use in addressing one person. It's also the familiar form; if you called the king "thou", you might run the risk of losing your head. With kings and other powerful, high-class folk, you have to use the "polite" plural form "you". Because, you know, they're worth more than you are.

That said, an ignorant commoner unfamiliar with the intricacies of grammar and usage might well use "thou" to address someone of higher class or rank, just because s/he doesn't know any better. For exactly this reason, JRR Tolkien imagined Merry Brandybuck speaking to Théoden, King of Rohan, using "thou", with Théoden being amused by the hobbit's overly familiar usage.

Using "thou" is tricky if you're not used to it, but once you get the hang of it, it's easy and fun. Here's a retranslation (so to speak) of the comic:

PANEL ONE [no changes] [I don't know what "Grammercy" means, but I assume it's a name or title or something like that. Unless it's some French-derived term meaning "thanks".]

PANEL TWO
Wizard: Wist thou who I am?
Girl: Thou art the wizard Yffi! Tales of thee wot I from my grandfather! [or, At my grandfather's knee wot I tales of thee!] Prithee forgive my gaze upon thee!

PANEL THREE
Verily, all who behold my face shall a terrible fate suffer. For this very cause keep I my face in shadow, as best I can. Yet thou hast nought to fear from a sideward glance. Regardest thou me a monster?

PANEL FOUR
Girl: The tales have it that thou wieldest mighty magic sometime for good, and sometime for evil.
Wizard: Which believest thou?
Girl: Methought thou mightest of thyself tell me.

A few grammar notes.

Panel 2:

I'm not completely sure that "witen" is an appropriate verb here. ("I wot", "thou wist") "Witen" is for knowing facts rather than e.g. being familiar with people. Maybe some German speaker could weigh in. I am sure that "know/knowest" would work fine. But using "wot/wist" here sounds good.

You wouldn't say "whom I am". Copulative verbs like "am" take the nominative (subject form) on both sides, so you wouldn't use "me" or "him" or "whom".

By the same token, you wouldn't say "tales of thou" or "looking upon thou". You would say "tales of thee" and "looking upon thee". Think of I vs. me. Thou vs. thee is the same thing.

Panel 3:

"Any whom look" is wrong; should be "any who look". Also, "Doth thou" should be "Dost thou"; "doth" is third-person singular, "he doth" and "she doth" and "it doth". (This is when "do" is used as a helping verb. If you use it as a standalone verb, like "what are you doing?", you would say "thou doest", "he/she/it doeth".)

Panel 4:

"Doth thou" --> "Dost thou", as above. Also "thou mightest" rather than "thou might". And if she's using "thou" all the time, she would probably say "thyself" rather than "yourself".

Hope that's helpful rather than pedantic. (Or helpful even if pedantic.)

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:24 pm 
Offline
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 64
The corrections make it a little better, but it's still damn-near incomprehensible.

Top 
   
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:27 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:26 am
Posts: 453
spox wrote:
Pete, in case you're interested:

"Middle Ages English" was actually what we today call "Middle English". If you heard someone speak it, you would probably not understand a word. If you saw it written, you would probably not understand a word. What you're writing in the comic is certainly not supposed to be Middle English (unless you literally don't want any readers to understand what the characters are saying).

Modern English began a hundred years or so before Shakespeare's works. I think THAT is what you're trying to emulate, something like Shakespearean English. Even though it's modern English, it's very old, archaic modern English. We can understand it, mostly, but some words and usages are out of date or even unknown.

The use of the pronoun "thou" (and "thee", and "thy") is a case in point. It is just the singular of "you", what you use in addressing one person. It's also the familiar form; if you called the king "thou", you might run the risk of losing your head. With kings and other powerful, high-class folk, you have to use the "polite" plural form "you". Because, you know, they're worth more than you are.

That said, an ignorant commoner unfamiliar with the intricacies of grammar and usage might well use "thou" to address someone of higher class or rank, just because s/he doesn't know any better. For exactly this reason, JRR Tolkien imagined Merry Brandybuck speaking to Théoden, King of Rohan, using "thou", with Théoden being amused by the hobbit's overly familiar usage.

Using "thou" is tricky if you're not used to it, but once you get the hang of it, it's easy and fun. Here's a retranslation (so to speak) of the comic:

PANEL ONE [no changes] [I don't know what "Grammercy" means, but I assume it's a name or title or something like that. Unless it's some French-derived term meaning "thanks".]

PANEL TWO
Wizard: Wist thou who I am?
Girl: Thou art the wizard Yffi! Tales of thee wot I from my grandfather! [or, At my grandfather's knee wot I tales of thee!] Prithee forgive my gaze upon thee!

PANEL THREE
Verily, all who behold my face shall a terrible fate suffer. For this very cause keep I my face in shadow, as best I can. Yet thou hast nought to fear from a sideward glance. Regardest thou me a monster?

PANEL FOUR
Girl: The tales have it that thou wieldest mighty magic sometime for good, and sometime for evil.
Wizard: Which believest thou?
Girl: Methought thou mightest of thyself tell me.

A few grammar notes.

Panel 2:

I'm not completely sure that "witen" is an appropriate verb here. ("I wot", "thou wist") "Witen" is for knowing facts rather than e.g. being familiar with people. Maybe some German speaker could weigh in. I am sure that "know/knowest" would work fine. But using "wot/wist" here sounds good.

You wouldn't say "whom I am". Copulative verbs like "am" take the nominative (subject form) on both sides, so you wouldn't use "me" or "him" or "whom".

By the same token, you wouldn't say "tales of thou" or "looking upon thou". You would say "tales of thee" and "looking upon thee". Think of I vs. me. Thou vs. thee is the same thing.

Panel 3:

"Any whom look" is wrong; should be "any who look". Also, "Doth thou" should be "Dost thou"; "doth" is third-person singular, "he doth" and "she doth" and "it doth". (This is when "do" is used as a helping verb. If you use it as a standalone verb, like "what are you doing?", you would say "thou doest", "he/she/it doeth".)

Panel 4:

"Doth thou" --> "Dost thou", as above. Also "thou mightest" rather than "thou might". And if she's using "thou" all the time, she would probably say "thyself" rather than "yourself".
but
Hope that's helpful rather than pedantic. (Or helpful even if pedantic.)

more gooder. i mean, comprehensible. still slightly unparseable but understandable.

Top 
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

Board index » Sluggy Related Forums » Reactions


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: