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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:26 pm 
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Pete was successful, and Friday did appear
I of course, thought there was nothing to fear
If you really wish to celebrate, go raise some beers
Or you could live dangerously, and raise some bears


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Please remember, voting is great bear repellent.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:56 am 
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Awwww, I was hoping we would get to see where Torg got his copy of “The Book of E-Ville for Dummies” from in this flashback.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:57 am 
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And this is how the War of the Bug Squishers was set up.

I barely remember how KZK ended up back in the present after he was sent back to the present. Is that when he broke into fragments and a fragment on him remained in Gwynn?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:16 am 
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ong wrote:
I barely remember how KZK ended up back in the present after he was sent back to the present. Is that when he broke into fragments and a fragment on him remained in Gwynn?

After the Book of Güd disintegrated the full form of K'Z'K, a bit of it remained with Gwynn's mind and piggy-backed on her soul back to the present.
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K'Z'K then manipulated Gwynn, while she was unaware of it, up until he was powerful enough to attempt to send her in the mind-End, Gwynn got the upper hand at the last minute.
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At this point, it was believed the Bug was gone for good (even for many readers), but it was just buried further in the back of Gwynn's mind, unable to do much until the Mokhadun events. Small spec here, but it's possible the demon couldn't do anything up until he got to a point in time where a cult of him was still going strong, even secretly.
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(notice how K'Z'K make sure to remain in a safe recursive time-loop; that's how you avoid Para-pox, kids)

And only then after being released in the present is K'Z'K back to square one, imprisoned in Farhan, imprisoned in the book.
Image

And that's basically it for K'Z'K's journey.


Last edited by GUIGUI on Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:29 am 
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Zillatain wrote:
Or you could live dangerously, and raise some bears

I have been summoned!

Now, mere humans, I shall bend this world to my will!

And my will is to go prowl in the forest like bears do. Bye!

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:36 pm 
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Seeing it's still relevant to today's comic, I am going to repost that post I made late in monday's thread (if it's okay with the mods).

Things worth noting, the Book of Uglhëë contained four spells:
1. to take a demon into the book the spell is written in
2. to take a demon out of the book the spell is written in (basically 1. spelled backward, it is also established as being disguised as a "Where'd I put my keys" spell)
3. to take a demon from a person and put it into the book the spell is written in
4. to take a demon out of the book the spell is written in and forces it into a person (basically 3. spelled backward, it is also established as being disguised as a "Revenge of the Brokenhearted" spell)

Now, the question is, why didn't K'Z'K simply put in the book of E Ville the spell to "take a demon out of the book" and instead went with the one that takes a demon out of the book? All it does is add an unnecessary extra step. Maybe an oversight from his part? It wouldn't be the first time. Maybe he was too eager to see Siphy II actually doing his bidding to realise spell 2. might have been better than spell 4. ? Or maybe Farhan failed to follow K'Z'K's actual instructions and tasked Siphy II with the wrong spell?

Last thing to note, it looks like Torg badly botched the incantation of the spell "to take a demon out of a person to put it into a book", when he freed Gwynn, even though that spell itself wasn't present in that book, but it makes sense he was able to (badly) improvise it, as the correct spell, as we have established, is just the one Gwynn used, but backward. The added help of Farhan also explains it.

Which might indicate that Torg actual plan was simply to put K'Z'K back into the book, but also that Torg and Riff winged everything till the last moment, which, you know, not really a surprise, there.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:45 pm 
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I guess this is the first time Farahn has really been alone. I wonder what type of crazy he goes?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:20 pm 
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GUIGUI wrote:
Now, the question is, why didn't K'Z'K simply put in the book of E Ville the spell to "take a demon out of the book" and instead went with the one that takes a demon out of the book? All it does is add an unnecessary extra step. Maybe an oversight from his part? It wouldn't be the first time. Maybe he was too eager to see Siphy II actually doing his bidding to realise spell 2. might have been better than spell 4. ? Or maybe Farhan failed to follow K'Z'K's actual instructions and tasked Siphy II with the wrong spell?


It should be noted that he isn't really trapped in the book, he was trapped in Farahn. So there might be details between the two spells that would disallow the direct-from-book spell working on someone who isn't technically trapped in a book, but in a person. The simpler spell just plain might not work in his rather unique situation. The later spell might be more of a "move from vessel to vessel" sort of spell. And we have evidence of this, because the reverse spell is used to move the demon into Farahn not from a book at all, but just in general!

https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?ch ... 2020-06-12

The real question is why doing it backwards put the demon right into the book of ughlee in that one strip, since it seems like it should have just ended the possession.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:30 pm 
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In addition to what Glyph Gryph said: If K'z'k couldn't change the disguise of the spell, then he probably thought it unlikely that anyone would try to use a key-finding spell at a time when few people had keys. Having the most convenient spell available is of no use if he can't trick anyone into casting it.

By the way, anyone who likes to analyze spells might have fun pondering why the exact same magic words have so different effects when spoken by Riff and by Gwynn. ;-)

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:46 pm 
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GlyphGryph wrote:
It should be noted that he isn't really trapped in the book, he was trapped in Farahn. So there might be details between the two spells that would disallow the direct-from-book spell working on someone who isn't technically trapped in a book, but in a person. The simpler spell just plain might not work in his rather unique situation. The later spell might be more of a "move from vessel to vessel" sort of spell. And we have evidence of this, because the reverse spell is used to move the demon into Farahn not from a book at all, but just in general!

The real question is why doing it backwards put the demon right into the book of ughlee in that one strip, since it seems like it should have just ended the possession.

Well spotted. It seems that might be the reason for not directly using 2. indeed.

And good question, maybe the Book naturally trap "naked" Demon when they are close enough and Aylee isn't completely tuthfull, or she has tweaked the spells a bit.

To note, when initially created, the Spell to bind someone to fabric (that couldn't be directly be used on K'Z'K) was not reversed by simply spelling it backward (also note how the backward B symbol (probably for Book) here has a scroll symbol instead):
Image
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So, there might be more subtlety than just incanting the spell backward to have the opposite effect. The slight variations might explains why Horny Boss got in the book?

Rombobjörn wrote:
By the way, anyone who likes to analyze spells might have fun pondering why the exact same magic words have so different effects when spoken by Riff and by Gwynn. ;-)

I'd simply say that Riff targetted a different Demon (did he somehow knew the one he sumoned couldn't meet the price?)

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:12 pm 
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Are the birds around fahran "kwi" from ye old camel days?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:37 pm 
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Rombobjörn wrote:
By the way, anyone who likes to analyze spells might have fun pondering why the exact same magic words have so different effects when spoken by Riff and by Gwynn. ;-)


The bug actually just explained this one, the spell releases "a" demon, and by the time Gwynn uses it he's the last one left so it has to release him. Neither of them are using the named/targeted version of the spell so it probably just hits whatever. And not using a target might be why

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:24 am 
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GlyphGryph wrote:
And we have evidence of this, because the reverse spell is used to move the demon into Farahn not from a book at all, but just in general!

https://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?ch ... 2020-06-12

Actually, looking at it again, that's not the reversed spell (we only see the reversed spell used once, to exorcise the guy that Horny boss was possessing). The spell used on Farhan is the same one used that get Gwynn possessed. So, it's basically a spell to get a human possessed.

But then again,
Rombobjörn wrote:
By the way, anyone who likes to analyze spells might have fun pondering why the exact same magic words have so different effects when spoken by Riff and by Gwynn. ;-)

I now realise the Demon that Riff summoned isn't transferred in a human, just released from the book. It wasn't really a powerful Demon and might just have been a way for K'Z'K to get rid of it from the book, so maybe that's it. Or it might be one of those demons (like Ozzid (so, a lesser demon?)) that don't need a human to possess and have a physical body of their own.

I'd speculate that the way this spell has a spiral at the end and the beginning might indicate that what this Spell do is transfer from one vessel to an other (each vessel represented by a spiral) and that in the absence of one vessel on the origin or the end, the spell will just do the transfer with what it still has. So, in case of K'Z'K being send into Farhan, no Origin Vessel, so the spell simply work by putting the bug into the King. As for Riff, no End Vessel, so the spell simply work by pulling the demon out of the book (if this is where it actually come from), with nothing to possess (an it doesn't look like it needed that)

Alternatively, a simpler explanation could be that we might be overthinking this way more that it needs to. That might really be mostly my fault, though, so... My bad.


Last edited by GUIGUI on Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:21 am 
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The two main refs being from 1999...whew! I don't know if it was just a whim or a general preference, but in hindsight, picking the Empire State Building over -at the time - NY's two tallest buildings turned out to be a good call. And as a related observation, the security joke definitely dates itself to a time before security theater. Which isn't to say you don't see those types of jokes anymore, but the modern version of them are noticeably different.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:09 pm 
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I'm not sure the demon Riff summoned was in any sense contained in the book. I had more the impression that he summoned it from hell or a similar place and it was just a summoning spell, not a release spell.

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