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GUIGUI
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:51 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:00 am Posts: 1013
Location: Belgium, the true land of the french fries (no its not the france, trust me)
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Pied Typer wrote: GUIGUI wrote: Yodimus_Prime wrote: [*]1988 - Steve notices Dr. Chen keeping tabs and hires him on
Where does that info comes from? Is it official that before that Chen and Steve hadn't met? They hadn't met before.So, hmm… what will happen when Zoë and Gwynn arrive? Oasis definitely belayed the "forget about Torg" order, yet she still seems to love Torg. Where does 1988 come from?
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Bunny Suction
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:16 pm |
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Location: *insert something clever here*
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Kesandru wrote: Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar?? This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it.
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Kesandru
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:19 am |
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 1104
Location: Behind you.
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Yodimus_Prime wrote: There could still be more revealed tomorrow, but if not, then I'm thinking "that is all I ask of you" is the trigger word to erase all commands, like you said. But why would Steven Hereti - consumate evil jerk - have the ultimate goal of his satellite-operated super-assassin be that she's not programmable? Pete still characterizes all his clones as evil jerks too, so it's not like he's dropped that thread. Why is early-days Dr Steve this caring father figure who just wants his pseudo-daughter to become a responsible self-aware woman, then latter-days Dr Steve is a egomaniacal mad scientist who treats the same person like she's just a tool to be used? What's going on here?
(also, damn it, I need to update the OP again after this week) [You have noone to blame but yourself. Thanks again for starting the thread Y_P. :) -G] There's a potentially easy answer to that too - Dr. Steve was also a clone. That would also explain all the post-explosion possibly-Steve appearances.
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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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I am not above speculating that Steve's plan seems needlessly convoluted because he liked needlessly convoluted plans. This is still a comedy after all GUIGUI wrote: Yodimus_Prime wrote: [*]1988 - Steve notices Dr. Chen keeping tabs and hires him on
Where does that precise year date comes from? Is it official that before that Chen and Steve hadn't met? It comes from archive scouring and math. My laziness does not extend to my sense of accuracy! Although I definitely should have cited pages to make this stuff easier to verify...welp! My laziness does extend to that
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swmartian
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:33 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:59 pm Posts: 2150
Location: In "Still" waters...
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Pied Typer wrote: So, hmm… what will happen when Zoë and Gwynn arrive? Oasis definitely belayed the "forget about Torg" order, yet she still seems to love Torg. Well, kicking him into an armed assassin is a funny way of showing love. LOL. { I am joking!I'm not sure that we've seen enough post her awakening to know that she still loves him. Right now, it would appear that she remembers Torg at least enough to know that they are on the same side and that is against Schlock. When the heat of the moment is over she will still care a great deal for Torg - but her love, her real love, is reserved for the Zahlia's. My guess is that when she sees Zoë, any jealousy is now going to be offset by simultaneous feelings of guilt. She is now in a place where she can process both emotions, stand down, and let Torg go. That is, if she doesn't make the ultimate sacrifice. Bunny Suction wrote: Kesandru wrote: Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar?? This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it. The need of all mad scientists to play god and create life? You have to admit that this is quite the step above Frankenstein... ...or even Noonien Soong.
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erewhon
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:29 am |
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:17 am Posts: 443
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Well, as Torg noted to Chen in the rebirth center, back at the time when Torg met Oasis the computer technology was not capable of an A.I. of that sophistication. Maybe he needed a human brain to get the level of autonomous cognition required. Granted he had a bunch of other tech that seems waay beyond the period, but as Schlock pointed out, that may have been stolen alien or future tech. Bunny Suction wrote: Kesandru wrote: Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar?? This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it.
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Bunzilla
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:16 pm |
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erewhon wrote: Well, as Torg noted to Chen in the rebirth center, back at the time when Torg met Oasis the computer technology was not capable of an A.I. of that sophistication. Maybe he needed a human brain to get the level of autonomous cognition required. Granted he had a bunch of other tech that seems waay beyond the period, but as Schlock pointed out, that may have been stolen alien or future tech. Bunny Suction wrote: Kesandru wrote: Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar?? This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it. There is also the command by Dr Steve to have Oasis fall in love with Torg. Why did he do that? Is it possible that Dr Steve was trying to teach Oasis emotions through being presented with feelings to a complete stranger? It seems pretty clear that Oasis has run the gamut of emotions this entire time. Her AI computer has been learning through experience. This should also mean that when the protocols were removed by Dr Schlock for both Override B-1 and the love of Torg then it holds that once she really becomes self aware(nosce te ipsum) all of that experience she has gained over the years will be allowed to be unlocked in her framework. She will remember everything and be fully in control of her own mind.
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Lord Golbez
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:06 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:50 pm Posts: 1772
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Pretty sure that Oasis falling in love with Torg was never part of Dr. Steve's plan. Yes he commanded her to fall in love with Torg, but the far-reaching effects were entirely unexpected. I don't believe Dr. Steve intended to die there and I do think that he intended for Torg to die. I don't think the order was really meant to teach Oasis anything and he probably would have rescinded it after she killed Torg. He was just showing off before killing Torg.
That explanation also dovetails into my thoughts regarding Dr. Steve's plans for Oasis and the nosce te ipsum goal. Just because Dr. Steve left an "out" for Oasis to escape her programming and be free doesn't mean that everything he did with her was in service of that goal. It seems pretty clear to me that things like Override B-1 had much more to do with his personal vendettas than getting Oasis to discover herself. Yes, you can argue that programming that put her in confrontation with hC could and did help her progress to discovering herself. Still, I'm not at all convinced Dr. Steve ever expected or wanted her to become free while he was still alive. Much like a rich person who hordes wealth during life and just gives a bunch away when they die, Dr. Steve likely wanted to use Oasis for his own ends while he was alive, but "magnanimously" provided a way for her to become free after his death.
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swmartian
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm |
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Lord Golbez wrote: Pretty sure that Oasis falling in love with Torg was never part of Dr. Steve's plan. Yes he commanded her to fall in love with Torg, but the far-reaching effects were entirely unexpected. I don't believe Dr. Steve intended to die there and I do think that he intended for Torg to die. I don't think the order was really meant to teach Oasis anything and he probably would have rescinded it after she killed Torg. He was just showing off before killing Torg.
That explanation also dovetails into my thoughts regarding Dr. Steve's plans for Oasis and the nosce te ipsum goal. Just because Dr. Steve left an "out" for Oasis to escape her programming and be free doesn't mean that everything he did with her was in service of that goal. It seems pretty clear to me that things like Override B-1 had much more to do with his personal vendettas than getting Oasis to discover herself. Yes, you can argue that programming that put her in confrontation with hC could and did help her progress to discovering herself. Still, I'm not at all convinced Dr. Steve ever expected or wanted her to become free while he was still alive. Much like a rich person who hordes wealth during life and just gives a bunch away when they die, Dr. Steve likely wanted to use Oasis for his own ends while he was alive, but "magnanimously" provided a way for her to become free after his death. I don't disagree with anything that you've said. And yet, I have never felt (even way back when) that Steve's death was final. All the more so, now that we know about his clones. Who knows whether that was the "real" Dr. Steve to die in that explosion? Perhaps Roberts is the "real" Dr. Steve? Or there is yet a fourth Dr. Steve running around out there. Loving Torg may not have been his original plan to set Oasis on her self-actualization path, but he saw an opening and let it lead where it would - understanding that it would take a strong emotion such as love to really break her free. Or what you said...
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slightlylooney
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:29 am |
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Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:08 pm Posts: 336
Location: On my way to Scarborough Fair
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Looking at the world as drawn, Oasis was "born" in orbit over the Indian Ocean, roughly east of the Cape of Good Hope. That makes me wonder if the satellite was truly geosynchronous and was relocated, whether it wasn't a geosynchronous satellite or whether there is more than one Oasis satellite.
If there was only one satellite, then it would not need line of sight if it has global coverage with its weapon. More likely, the weapon will need line of sight. A network of satellites therefore seems more likely than the satellite always manoeuvring to be in orbit over where Oasis was. This also suggests that Oasis's mind was actually distributed amongst several satellites to avoid a single point of failure.
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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:39 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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Just so we're on the same page: the picture of Earth Pete chose to use is the Blue Marble photo, taken during one of the Apollo missions. Famous for being the first photo ever taken of the Earth far enough away to get a whole hemisphere in daylight, and plastered throughout schools across America forevermore.
So unless Pete's saying OASIS was the secret photographer of that exact picture in the 1970s, I think it's safe to assume he was just going for a generic 'surface of the Earth' imagery
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Chickenhead
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:58 am |
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:58 am Posts: 142
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swmartian wrote: I don't disagree with anything that you've said. And yet, I have never felt (even way back when) that Steve's death was final. All the more so, now that we know about his clones. Who knows whether that was the "real" Dr. Steve to die in that explosion? Perhaps Roberts is the "real" Dr. Steve? Or there is yet a fourth Dr. Steve running around out there. Loving Torg may not have been his original plan to set Oasis on her self-actualization path, but he saw an opening and let it lead where it would - understanding that it would take a strong emotion such as love to really break her free.
Or what you said... I've been thinking that about Roberts myself...that and his curious headgear. The Dr. Steve we met back in the archives doesn't seem to match what Oasis remembers. THAT Dr. Steve was a crazed jerk...doesn't quite match the younger, slimmer, and seemingly kinder Dr. Steve in Oasis' memories. Or, given what Schlock said about future tech...perhaps there is only one Steve and we keep meeting him out-of-sequence in time.
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slightlylooney
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:16 am |
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Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:08 pm Posts: 336
Location: On my way to Scarborough Fair
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Yodimus_Prime wrote: Just so we're on the same page: the picture of Earth Pete chose to use is the Blue Marble photo, taken during one of the Apollo missions. Famous for being the first photo ever taken of the Earth far enough away to get a whole hemisphere in daylight, and plastered throughout schools across America forevermore.
So unless Pete's saying OASIS was the secret photographer of that exact picture in the 1970s, I think it's safe to assume he was just going for a generic 'surface of the Earth' imagery I don't disagree about that. What I am saying is that, as Oasis was painting parts of what she first saw, she likely was "born" at a similar point in orbit.
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Rombobjörn
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm |
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slightlylooney wrote: Looking at the world as drawn, Oasis was "born" in orbit over the Indian Ocean, roughly east of the Cape of Good Hope. That makes me wonder if the satellite was truly geosynchronous and was relocated, whether it wasn't a geosynchronous satellite or whether there is more than one Oasis satellite. I don't remember anything that indicates that O.A.S.I.S. is in a geosynchronous orbit. A geosynchronous weapon satellite makes sense if you're only interested in targeting one particular part of the world, and that part isn't too close to either pole, and you want to be able to strike there at any time on short notice. To be able to strike anywhere (except for the poles maybe) you need three or four geostationary satellites, or else lower orbits. A single satellite in a low, polar orbit will let you strike anywhere in the world, but you'll have to wait for the satellite to get into position. A lower orbit means that you can use a smaller and cheaper rocket, and the shorter distance allows for much higher precision in the targeting. A network of satellites in low orbits will let you strike anywhere in the world on short notice. You'll need more than just three or four satellites, but the launches are cheaper compared to a geosynchronous orbit, and again you'll get much higher precision. By the way, the geostationary orbit is crowded, so the risk of collisions is high, which is especially dangerous to invisible satellites.
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slightlylooney
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:54 pm |
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Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:08 pm Posts: 336
Location: On my way to Scarborough Fair
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@Rombobjörn,
Well, that was what I was trying to say.
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