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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:51 am 
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Pied Typer wrote:
GUIGUI wrote:
Yodimus_Prime wrote:
[*]1988 - Steve notices Dr. Chen keeping tabs and hires him on

Where does that info comes from? Is it official that before that Chen and Steve hadn't met?

They hadn't met before.

So, hmm… what will happen when Zoë and Gwynn arrive? Oasis definitely belayed the "forget about Torg" order, yet she still seems to love Torg.

Where does 1988 come from?

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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Kesandru wrote:
Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar??

This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:19 am 
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Yodimus_Prime wrote:
There could still be more revealed tomorrow, but if not, then I'm thinking "that is all I ask of you" is the trigger word to erase all commands, like you said. But why would Steven Hereti - consumate evil jerk - have the ultimate goal of his satellite-operated super-assassin be that she's not programmable? Pete still characterizes all his clones as evil jerks too, so it's not like he's dropped that thread. Why is early-days Dr Steve this caring father figure who just wants his pseudo-daughter to become a responsible self-aware woman, then latter-days Dr Steve is a egomaniacal mad scientist who treats the same person like she's just a tool to be used? What's going on here?

(also, damn it, I need to update the OP again after this week) [You have noone to blame but yourself. Thanks again for starting the thread Y_P. :) -G]


There's a potentially easy answer to that too - Dr. Steve was also a clone. That would also explain all the post-explosion possibly-Steve appearances.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 am 
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I am not above speculating that Steve's plan seems needlessly convoluted because he liked needlessly convoluted plans. This is still a comedy after all

GUIGUI wrote:
Yodimus_Prime wrote:
[*]1988 - Steve notices Dr. Chen keeping tabs and hires him on

Where does that precise year date comes from? Is it official that before that Chen and Steve hadn't met?


It comes from archive scouring and math. My laziness does not extend to my sense of accuracy! Although I definitely should have cited pages to make this stuff easier to verify...welp! My laziness does extend to that

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Pied Typer wrote:
So, hmm… what will happen when Zoë and Gwynn arrive? Oasis definitely belayed the "forget about Torg" order, yet she still seems to love Torg.

Well, kicking him into an armed assassin is a funny way of showing love. LOL. { I am joking!

I'm not sure that we've seen enough post her awakening to know that she still loves him. Right now, it would appear that she remembers Torg at least enough to know that they are on the same side and that is against Schlock. When the heat of the moment is over she will still care a great deal for Torg - but her love, her real love, is reserved for the Zahlia's. My guess is that when she sees Zoë, any jealousy is now going to be offset by simultaneous feelings of guilt. She is now in a place where she can process both emotions, stand down, and let Torg go. That is, if she doesn't make the ultimate sacrifice.

Bunny Suction wrote:
Kesandru wrote:
Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar??

This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it.

The need of all mad scientists to play god and create life? You have to admit that this is quite the step above Frankenstein... ...or even Noonien Soong.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:29 am 
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Well, as Torg noted to Chen in the rebirth center, back at the time when Torg met Oasis the computer technology was not capable of an A.I. of that sophistication. Maybe he needed a human brain to get the level of autonomous cognition required. Granted he had a bunch of other tech that seems waay beyond the period, but as Schlock pointed out, that may have been stolen alien or future tech.
Bunny Suction wrote:
Kesandru wrote:
Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar??

This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:16 pm 
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erewhon wrote:
Well, as Torg noted to Chen in the rebirth center, back at the time when Torg met Oasis the computer technology was not capable of an A.I. of that sophistication. Maybe he needed a human brain to get the level of autonomous cognition required. Granted he had a bunch of other tech that seems waay beyond the period, but as Schlock pointed out, that may have been stolen alien or future tech.
Bunny Suction wrote:
Kesandru wrote:
Why the hell did Dr. Steve need his orbital death ray to have a physical avatar??

This. Something has been sitting wrong with me since the big reveal and this is it. It's all incredibly intricate and creative and no one would ever guess it in a million years... but... WHY?? What possible reason would Steve have for introducing a human element at all? It's so needlessly convoluted, which leads me to believe there has to be more to it.


There is also the command by Dr Steve to have Oasis fall in love with Torg. Why did he do that? Is it possible that Dr Steve was trying to teach Oasis emotions through being presented with feelings to a complete stranger? It seems pretty clear that Oasis has run the gamut of emotions this entire time. Her AI computer has been learning through experience. This should also mean that when the protocols were removed by Dr Schlock for both Override B-1 and the love of Torg then it holds that once she really becomes self aware(nosce te ipsum) all of that experience she has gained over the years will be allowed to be unlocked in her framework. She will remember everything and be fully in control of her own mind.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:06 am 
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Pretty sure that Oasis falling in love with Torg was never part of Dr. Steve's plan. Yes he commanded her to fall in love with Torg, but the far-reaching effects were entirely unexpected. I don't believe Dr. Steve intended to die there and I do think that he intended for Torg to die. I don't think the order was really meant to teach Oasis anything and he probably would have rescinded it after she killed Torg. He was just showing off before killing Torg.

That explanation also dovetails into my thoughts regarding Dr. Steve's plans for Oasis and the nosce te ipsum goal. Just because Dr. Steve left an "out" for Oasis to escape her programming and be free doesn't mean that everything he did with her was in service of that goal. It seems pretty clear to me that things like Override B-1 had much more to do with his personal vendettas than getting Oasis to discover herself. Yes, you can argue that programming that put her in confrontation with hC could and did help her progress to discovering herself. Still, I'm not at all convinced Dr. Steve ever expected or wanted her to become free while he was still alive. Much like a rich person who hordes wealth during life and just gives a bunch away when they die, Dr. Steve likely wanted to use Oasis for his own ends while he was alive, but "magnanimously" provided a way for her to become free after his death.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Lord Golbez wrote:
Pretty sure that Oasis falling in love with Torg was never part of Dr. Steve's plan. Yes he commanded her to fall in love with Torg, but the far-reaching effects were entirely unexpected. I don't believe Dr. Steve intended to die there and I do think that he intended for Torg to die. I don't think the order was really meant to teach Oasis anything and he probably would have rescinded it after she killed Torg. He was just showing off before killing Torg.

That explanation also dovetails into my thoughts regarding Dr. Steve's plans for Oasis and the nosce te ipsum goal. Just because Dr. Steve left an "out" for Oasis to escape her programming and be free doesn't mean that everything he did with her was in service of that goal. It seems pretty clear to me that things like Override B-1 had much more to do with his personal vendettas than getting Oasis to discover herself. Yes, you can argue that programming that put her in confrontation with hC could and did help her progress to discovering herself. Still, I'm not at all convinced Dr. Steve ever expected or wanted her to become free while he was still alive. Much like a rich person who hordes wealth during life and just gives a bunch away when they die, Dr. Steve likely wanted to use Oasis for his own ends while he was alive, but "magnanimously" provided a way for her to become free after his death.

I don't disagree with anything that you've said. And yet, I have never felt (even way back when) that Steve's death was final. All the more so, now that we know about his clones. Who knows whether that was the "real" Dr. Steve to die in that explosion? Perhaps Roberts is the "real" Dr. Steve? Or there is yet a fourth Dr. Steve running around out there. Loving Torg may not have been his original plan to set Oasis on her self-actualization path, but he saw an opening and let it lead where it would - understanding that it would take a strong emotion such as love to really break her free.

Or what you said...

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:29 am 
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Looking at the world as drawn, Oasis was "born" in orbit over the Indian Ocean, roughly east of the Cape of Good Hope. That makes me wonder if the satellite was truly geosynchronous and was relocated, whether it wasn't a geosynchronous satellite or whether there is more than one Oasis satellite.

If there was only one satellite, then it would not need line of sight if it has global coverage with its weapon. More likely, the weapon will need line of sight. A network of satellites therefore seems more likely than the satellite always manoeuvring to be in orbit over where Oasis was. This also suggests that Oasis's mind was actually distributed amongst several satellites to avoid a single point of failure.

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