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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:53 am 
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Apparently Barr saw some personal downside in saying that Trump didn't break any laws in this Ukraine mess, and so he refused to hold a press conference to do that when Trump asked him to. Aside from possibly getting disbarred I'm not sure what he's scared of; but it must be interesting.

Meanwhile it's fun to watch the treason weasels on the Hill running around trying to out the whistleblower; even if they are all engaged in a conspiracy to commit a felony, they're just so inept about it. Which is apparently supposed to be the last line of defense for Trump's felonies, too. But then again, Putin has had the Russian media print the name of someone who could be the WB; nice to know Trump is still on good terms with his handler through all of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:51 am 
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Well, if someone called Barr gets disbarred, one has to bear in mind that the bad jokes at his expense will never cease. He has more to fear from disbarring than someone with a different name.

Kea wrote:
If the Senate acquits him in impeachment (likely) and he wins a second term after losing the popular vote again (possible), I don't want to think about what the world looks like in another four years' time.


Extrapolating from Zuma... imagine anything and everything that's government-funded almost collapsing from sheer lack of money and lack of maintenance; and a national debt that makes any financier step back and raise both eyebrows.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 am 
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The treason weasels would need to hold both houses of Congress as well to do that; but so long as they hold one we can count on them finally killing the rule of law in this country were Trump to be permitted another term.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Idly amusing: a witness at the impeachment trial is complaining about Trump harassing her, and as she does so he goes on twitter to harass her. Clearly he's not the brains in his little company.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:58 am 
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We are seeing the consequences of an all-lackey White House. There's nobody left to tell Trump not to do stupid illegal stuff.

I now consume news about the US impeachment scandal as a light distraction from the dystopian hellscape I'm living in.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:02 pm 
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Given what I've been reading about the situation in HK these days, I suppose the Trump and Treason show would be light distraction. Hopefully you get through that ok.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:48 pm 
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Sondland's lawyer must have told him that if he doesn't flip on Trump, he's going to prison. A dude who bought an ambassardorship isn't going to sacrifice himself. All lackeys, all the time.

So all the Republicans have got left to cling to is a single out-of-context quote where a clearly lying Trump said he didn't want a quid pro quo. That's all that's gonna play on Fox News. There's a few small signs that reality is breaking in on the edges of Trumpland, but it might be too little too late.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Can the Democrats engeneer the timing, so that the vote in the senate will have to happen between senate primaries and senate elections?

So that republican senators don't have to fear primary challangers (in the short run at least) but still have to fear, that centrist voters switch to the democrats? And are there enough republican senators in swing states, that are up to election, to make that a viable plan?

And the best Machiavellian strategy for republican right now IMHO would be to play for time by getting busy on irrelevant details, without commiting to anything, until some other rats leave the ship, before they could make up their minds, if Trump should be impeached or not. Then they can eat and have their cake.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:03 pm 
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It's not something the Democrats in the House would be interested in. If this just sits around it becomes old news; they need to make it as messy as possible then dump it in the laps of the Republicans in the Senate. And from the Democratic point of view an openly partisan party line vote to acquit isn't necessarily a bad thing; it makes half a dozen Republican Senators very vulnerable to being replaced by a Democrat, and they only need 3-4 seats to take the Senate.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Funny to see Trump standing up for the nice folks who own the Washington Post, but still he's threatening to impose massive tariffs on France to protect them. I can see his wealthy followers stocking up on luxuries at an even greater rate now.

Still, what France is doing does have to be done. Corporate tax avoidance is a massive problem that has to be brought to heel; it's just causing too much damage to everyone but the center-right and right wing politicians taking payoffs to let it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 am 
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Looks like impeachment proceedings are ramping up, and there's still zero chance of any Senate Republicans abandoning Trump. We're seeing a cynical segmentation of messaging among the right wing. For the die-hards there's "But crooked Biden deserved it and something something Ukraine 2016 election secret servers conspiracy" and for the moderates there's "Sure what Trump did was bad, but it's not worth impeachment". Everyone can pick their own favourite excuse and nobody has to change anything.

I sure hope the Democrats' efforts to hang Trump around their necks doesn't backfire. I have a feeling that Devin Nunes's self-serving fantasies are going to become 2020's time-sucking Benghazi.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:04 am 
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Devin Nunes' self serving fantasies may well become his ticket to the federal pokey; he's implicated in this mess now, and there's all but zero chance of his co-conspirators taking the House and being able to cover for him by running that kind of time wasting game.

As for the Democrats, I don't think there's too much downside here. Nobody who matters in this tunes into the right wing lie machine; and even if their position can't be boiled down to ten syllables (as the Republican lies easily can) it's going to be real hard to brush off as the kind of nothingburger the Republicans tried to hang on Clinton. There may not be much of an upside, but I don't see how they can possibly hurt themselves even with the corporate media, the 'cool kid' reporters and the professional centrists/GOP apologists in the tank for the GOP (which in this case is not a given).

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Weremensh wrote:
Nobody who matters in this tunes into the right wing lie machine;


A significant number of swing state voters do. The Senate won't remove Trump no matter what he does. Any of his officials who go down will either be quickly forgotten (like Michael Cohen) or turned into conspiracy martyrs (like Roger Stone) on the right wing lie machine. And then voters who don't pay much attention to the goings on in Washington may very well conclude that this whole impeachment mess is merely a partisan circus.

It won't matter how reviled Trump is in New York when the whole thing turns on a few hundred thousand votes in Wisconsin. If Trump is defeated in 2020, it will not be by a landslide, but by the narrow margin of a competitive presidential election, as though none of his corruption and incompetence made one bit of difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:33 pm 
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The persuadable voters don't listen to Fox either, and they're not going to go for the Republican line that Republicans are above the law (which is really all they're saying). Look, Trump is essentially unelectable even with the perversion of the Electoral College. He needs everything to break his way for the next year, legally and otherwise, to have a prayer. This one pretty much makes that impossible, and it also makes keeping the Senate rather more difficult for his fellow criminals. Granted that 1 in a 100 shots do happen (one percent of the time), but they're not the way to bet.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:23 am 
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Quote:
The persuadable voters don't listen to Fox either,

If they listened to Fox that would be a relatively easily definable problem but I don't see any sign that they listen to reputable news sources either. Not in 2019. In between the football and the celebrity scandals, people listen to out-of-context Facebook clickbait from fifth rate media outlets, Youtube videos, internet comments, and unsourced forwarded messages in group chats. All easy targets for the Russians and the algorithms. Devin Nunes didn't get this crazy Ukraine stuff out of nowhere. By the time it gets onto Fox News, it's been percolating through the loonysphere for months.

The centrist voter is a statistical myth, and many persuadable voters are people with deeply idiosyncratic worldviews who for example, hate Elizabeth Warren but find Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump almost equally appealing. Or people so far outside of the mainstream that they consider the Democrats and Republicans indistinguishable from one another and will pick whoever has the most outsider cred no matter what their actual policies. Or they're single-issue voters who can overlook almost everything but really, really care about one very specific subsidy in their state.

The polls, incredibly, still find Donald Trump competitive in the swing states. Of the Democrats running, only Joe Biden seems to reliably beat him. If over 50% of the population in these states haven't already decided that a vote for Trump would be socially unacceptable, then those undecideds are almost by definition open to flimsy excuses and false equivalence. The goal isn't really to get them to believe in Trump's innocence, it's to stir up doubt so that people throw their hands up and say "All politics is dirty!"

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