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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:39 pm 
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At the moment the republicans seem to do their best to make their candidate look guilty.

They don't want an FBI investigation. If you prefere a comitee of paid political hacks (senators), who do grandstanding in public over professional investigators, that sure looks fishy.

Kavanaugh presents himself as so good, that he only farts rainbows. Who is going to believe that?

"See what a doe eyed victim i am", "A proper investigation is an impertinence, let's use the court of public opinion or even better some well disposed comitee, with a matching agenda instead", if you file off the persons involved and go just by the strategies, you'd think someone is making an ugly caricature of the meeToo movement.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:18 pm 
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This is just like the Obamacare repeal. And the tax cuts. Both times they knew they were selling a turd, but they didn't care how bad it made them look. That can always be spun on Fox News for the 40% of the electorate they care about. And since they've so far had a 50% success rate, they may as well go for broke.

I think we're underestimating just how short these people's time horizons are. They're trying to grab everything they can and escape into cushy lobbying or Fox News talking head jobs before the Trump Train derails.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:13 am 
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And they have hit "Anyone who questions me or my actions, is just a part of a backlash against my political movement, so i can safely gloss over the details and hide behind my political allies" too.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:39 am 
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arcosh wrote:
And they have hit "Anyone who questions me or my actions, is just a part of a backlash against my political movement, so i can safely gloss over the details and hide behind my political allies" too.


Have they given a name to the 'backlash' yet? Hired a PR firm to spread their story?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:00 am 
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I am refering to this Kavanough quote:

Quote:
This whole two-week effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit, fueled by pent-up anger over President Trump in the 2016 election....


I'm not aware of any fancy name they have for it yet, but it is the "backlash" sentiment. "It's not about what i might have done, it's about the political movement i am associated with, so i am callong the movement to arms."

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:54 am 
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I get that.

I'm just internally comparing Trump with Zuma. Zuma pulled basically the same trick; though he called the people who question him and/or his actions "agents of White Monopoly Capital" and never quite specified what that term meant.

And yes, Zuma did literally hire a P.R. firm (Bell Pottinger) to help to push that story (the P.R. firm in question pretty much imploded from negative publicity once that news came out). So I was mostly wondering how far down the same path Trump had gone.

But if they had a name for their 'it's a conspiracy against us!' rhetoric, then they would use it extensively in press releases (so that the man on the street knows who they want him to blame). If they haven't, then presumably it hasn't gone that far yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:28 pm 
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It does have a name, it's called "the Deep State." That's for anyone in government, inside or outside Trump's own administration, who questions him at all. Then there's "Fake News." That's any story that doesn't laud him. And of course, it's all promoted by "the Mainstream Media" (AKA the "Lamestream Media"). That's any media outlet except Fox News. Fox is playing your BP role, so he doesn't even need an actual PR firm.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:33 am 
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Senator Jeff Flake appears to have a last-minute outbreak of caution and put everything on hold while the FBI does another background check on Kavanaugh, but unless the FBI turns up something egregious (worse than sexual assault, we know how little the Republicans care about that), it's probably just going to give him, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski a fig leaf to vote him in anyway.

Even though he's shown himself to be a belligerent lying jackass who is so partisan he will have to recuse himself from any case involving the Democrats and/or sexual assault victims. And that was meant to be his good side.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:05 pm 
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I doubt turning up proof of sexual assault will give Collins and Murkowski a get out of a bind free card, somehow. Or Flake, for that matter. And it'll make it real easy for the red state Democrats to vote no.

Of course, if they turn up proof of rape and procuring rape, then things get real interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:01 am 
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I guess it all depends, if thoose 3 Republican senators search for a justification to vote for him or for one to vote against him.

Or if they just want to stall, until someone takes the decision out of their hands.

BTW IMO Kavanaugh should not have a position as judge, independent if the allegations are correct or not. He used severly mangled witness statements in his defence. Understanding witness statements is part of the job of a judge. Blundering at that, when auditioning for a job as a judge, does not look good.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:26 am 
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Quote:
I doubt turning up proof of sexual assault will give Collins and Murkowski a get out of a bind free card, somehow. Or Flake, for that matter. And it'll make it real easy for the red state Democrats to vote no.


The operative word here is proof. It has to be incontrovertible, undeniable, caught on fricking tape, wrote it down and bragged about it, the whole school tittered over the humiliating photographs, proof. Absent that, the Republicans will just claim it's hearsay, even if Kavanaugh and his old frat buddies act obviously shifty about it when questioned.

Although there's now a thousand law professors on a petition saying that Kavanaugh is temperamentally unfit to be a Supreme Court judge. Wonder if it'll make the slightest difference. The Republicans enjoy thumbing their noses at academia. They'll probably just organise their own Lawyers for Kavanaugh counter-petition.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:09 am 
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Kea wrote:
It has to be incontrovertible, undeniable, caught on fricking tape, wrote it down and bragged about it, the whole school tittered over the humiliating photographs, proof.


Even with that standard of proof, it probably won't be enough. All he needs are highly competent lawyers, high-placed political allies and bottomless reserves of cash; he can delay, deflect, and stall pretty much indefinitely if his lawyers really know their stuff (and we can probably safely assume that they do) and then insist that he's innocent "until proven guilty in a court of law".

He just has to keep himself out of that court until he has the position he wants, and the nature of the proof won't matter because it'll never be presented.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Making it to the Supremes isn't quite a Stay Out Of Jail card for Judge K. If that kind of proof is found, he'll simply be tried, convicted, and go to prison in deep blue Maryland (where Rape doesn't have a time limit for trial). There's not a hint of protection for a judge of any grade being protected from arrest and trial in the Constitution.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:55 pm 
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If such conclusive proof existed, it would have come out by now, useless FBI investigation or not. So I don't think it exists. All there is are the recollections of people who knew him in highschool (Maryland has no jurisdiction over Yale), and the worst of these which have become public just say that they knew Kavanaugh to be a drunken arsehole. Unless more victims come out of the woodwork, there's not enough to hang a criminal prosecution on.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump.
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:05 pm 
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This is horrible on both sides. If the Dems hadn't played politics with these accusations and tried to wring the maximum benefit out of them, maybe they would have gotten legitimately investigated. Instead a candidate who clearly isn't right for the job, even if the accusations are all false, now seems like a martyr.

Meanwhile it's hard to escape the conclusion that the GOP is so bullish on this candidate BECAUSE of the accusations, not in spite of them.

If Kavanaugh is confirmed, which seems increasingly likely, I have to call it a disastrous own-goal for the Dems. There was so much manufactured outrage, there wasn't enough left for when it was really needed.

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