Author |
Message |
weremensh
|
Post Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:22 pm |
|
Moderator of DOOM! |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 15853
Location: Yes.
|
As I'm sure you're all aware, the congresscritters have gotten a bit more squirrely than usual. A bit. They've allowed the Federal Government to shut down. But what does that mean? A few closed national parks, an odd form or two not filled out immediately, the program to feed poor women and their children shut down for the duration, medical research shelved; not a big deal right? Or so we hear on Fox. Still, there's the little issue of the US debt limit which will come to a head in about two weeks. Today I saw a couple of charming pieces in the NY Times and the Washington Post, both of which start by saying that the current Speaker of the House is opposed to letting the US default on it's debts. Both then let a couple of paragraphs go by before they finally add the second clause of that sentence: unless his demands aren't met. Hope you were paying attention there; if, like many, you stopped short of that last bit then you might just have gotten Boehner's intentions a trifle wrong. Wouldn't want that, would we? You might be lured into a less than prudent bet on whether the debt ceiling will be raised on time. That would be bad. Anyway, I see stories that if Obama doesn't shut all of this down with a stunt like the trillion dollar platinum coins, then the Treasury will just finesse the issue by taking any incoming tax revenues and using them to pay off the bonds coming due. This would avoid any defaults (there's more than enough tax money coming in for this); but it would not be very popular with certain elements in Congress. Ah, well. Everything is going so smoothly these days, I'm sure that won't amount to much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Steavie
|
Post Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:48 am |
|
Gatekeeper of Niftiness |
|
Offline |
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:54 am Posts: 5115
Location: Australia
|
The Australian federal government shut down once. Under the Queen's authority, the Governor General had the Prime Minister removed. The senate was forced to resolve their issues and was then dissolved. A new government was started from scratch. This only happened once. Who said the monarchy wasn't good for anything?
|
|
|
|
|
AlternateTorg
|
Post Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:55 am |
|
Member of the Fraternal Order of the Emergency Pants |
|
Offline |
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:00 am Posts: 2994
|
Congress's chronic lack of capacity to get stuff done is ticking me off more and more. If I failed as utterly at my job as they have, I'd be fired, no question. Hopefully we remember this at the polls.
I'm beginning to wonder if my plan for tax reform couldn't have other applications. The plan was this: All members of Congress are shipped to an uninhabited island. Not a nice, tropical one with beautiful beaches and fruity beverages, but an unpleasant, barren chunk of land. Each person will be supplied with a complete copy of the tax code, and will be permitted to leave the island when they have done their own taxes. (No calling your CPA, you have to do it yourself.) They're allowed to enact new tax law while there.
|
|
|
|
|
Passiflora
|
Post Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:36 pm |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Tue May 21, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 12407
Location: The things, they hurt
|
They're bloody hopeless. Even if there are enough votes for a coalition of moderates, they can't bring any moderate budgets up to vote. Because Boehner won't allow a vote on anything a majority of House Republicans won't support, because if he did, the base would fire him. Since the average House Republican is much more right wing than the average Senate Republican, let alone the average Senate Democrat, it is literally impossible for Congress to pass anything that the Senate would agree to.
Wheeeeeeeee...
I say we have one of those Bridezilla shows where Congress tries to plan a wedding. It'll be TV gold.
|
|
|
|
|
Kajin
|
Post Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:05 am |
|
Gatekeeper of Niftiness |
|
Offline |
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:16 am Posts: 9081
Location: Praise be to the sticky elastic bands of the Healing Gauze
|
Why do that when we can just put them in a retirement home? We'd make more progress (and get a better job done of it) if we just put a bunch of bloody chickens with their heads cut off in charge of the senate. Jackasses. I hate politics.
|
|
|
|
|
Passiflora
|
Post Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:21 am |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Tue May 21, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 12407
Location: The things, they hurt
|
I'm too depressed by politics to care much about it any more. As I get older, I find myself reading more and more mindless fluffy lifestyle articles and Cracked.com. US politics is borked, and Hong Kong politics are no better. Pointless controversy after pointless controversy.
|
|
|
|
|
drachefly
|
Post Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:07 am |
|
Member of the Fraternal Order of the Emergency Pants |
|
Offline |
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 3167
AOL: drachefly
Location: Philadelphia, PA
|
Weremensh wrote: ... I see stories that if Obama doesn't shut all of this down with a stunt like the trillion dollar platinum coins, then the Treasury will just finesse the issue by taking any incoming tax revenues and using them to pay off the bonds coming due. And what do they not pay for? Constitutionally it seems like they're required to cover the debts first, but what to do with the rest is a teensy weensy bit of an open question.
|
|
|
|
|
AlternateTorg
|
Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:19 am |
|
Member of the Fraternal Order of the Emergency Pants |
|
Offline |
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:00 am Posts: 2994
|
What's really grating my cheese are these various bills in Congress right now from both parties that claim to require that Congress not get paid during a government shutdown. Sounds fair, until you read the fine print: all the ones I've looked at put the withheld funds in escrow until some later period (end of session), at which point IT'S PAID OUT TO CONGRESS. So they don't lose any pay, it's just delayed a while. And given that everyone in Congress is rich (you kind of have to be to get there), they can certainly afford to wait. At the end of things, they're only out whatever interest they would have made on their pay. They're just to try to make themselves look good. Congress, cut that out right now and FIX THE DANG PROBLEM.
|
|
|
|
|
caffeine
|
Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:52 am |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 2341
Location: Smack bang in the middle of Europe
|
AlternateTorg wrote: What's really grating my cheese are these various bills in Congress right now from both parties that claim to require that Congress not get paid during a government shutdown. Sounds fair, until you read the fine print: all the ones I've looked at put the withheld funds in escrow until some later period (end of session), at which point IT'S PAID OUT TO CONGRESS. So they don't lose any pay, it's just delayed a while. And given that everyone in Congress is rich (you kind of have to be to get there), they can certainly afford to wait. At the end of things, they're only out whatever interest they would have made on their pay. They're just to try to make themselves look good. Congress, cut that out right now and FIX THE DANG PROBLEM. What happens with other federal employees that aren't working now? Do they get back pay at the end of it all, or are they all just without pay until this is settled?
|
|
|
|
|
drachefly
|
Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:01 am |
|
Member of the Fraternal Order of the Emergency Pants |
|
Offline |
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 3167
AOL: drachefly
Location: Philadelphia, PA
|
It is expected that they will get back pay.
|
|
|
|
|
Simon_Jester
|
Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:47 pm |
|
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:58 am Posts: 7718
AOL: SimonJester1v1
Location: Look at me still talking when there's Science to do!
|
I believe they did last time. Kea wrote: They're bloody hopeless. Even if there are enough votes for a coalition of moderates, they can't bring any moderate budgets up to vote. Because Boehner won't allow a vote on anything a majority of House Republicans won't support, because if he did, the base would fire him. Since the average House Republican is much more right wing than the average Senate Republican, let alone the average Senate Democrat, it is literally impossible for Congress to pass anything that the Senate would agree to.
Wheeeeeeeee...
I say we have one of those Bridezilla shows where Congress tries to plan a wedding. It'll be TV gold. Honestly, I think that if Boehner lets this go on much long (which will result in a double whammy when we hit the debt ceiling again), he should just step down as House Majority Leader, because it's pretty obvious he can't actually lead 'his' majority.
|
|
|
|
|
weremensh
|
Post Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:08 pm |
|
Moderator of DOOM! |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 15853
Location: Yes.
|
Regarding pay: Congress passed a law which says Federal workers will get their back pay. That much is now assured. As far as their own pay, Congress can not pass a law changing it; it's prohibited in the Constitution for any such law to take effect until the next Congress convenes. They are all, of course, free to sign it all over to the Treasury if they're determined to make the point.
As far as what might get paid aside from bonds coming due; who knows? Certainly not everything. And the folks who send out the checks are insisting that there is nothing in the system which prints the checks that would let them set priorities; all it can really do is pay it all off in the order it arrives (which if true would mean paying the bonds would require moving them to the head of the line manually).
Btw; The Daily Show is running a clip of Boehner on a talk show acknowledging that the shutdown all the work of his crowd. It seems there was a deal with the Senate Democrats for a clean CR in exchange for something else, and the House Republicans reneged because 'my caucus thought that Obamacare was so dangerous to America that we had to take a stand'. One may want to keep that in mind the next time the party of personal responsibility denies any.
|
|
|
|
|
Passiflora
|
Post Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:30 pm |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Tue May 21, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 12407
Location: The things, they hurt
|
So, anyone taking bets on how long it's going to take for Congress to pull their heads out of their arses and reopen the government?
|
|
|
|
|
Kajin
|
Post Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:23 am |
|
Gatekeeper of Niftiness |
|
Offline |
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:16 am Posts: 9081
Location: Praise be to the sticky elastic bands of the Healing Gauze
|
I'm guessing there'll be complete anarchy in the streets nationwide before congress manages to reach a consensus on anything.
|
|
|
|
|
s.i.l.
|
Post Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:11 am |
|
|
Offline |
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:02 am Posts: 1210
Website: http://circular-illogic.deviantart.com/
Location: Somewhere, Texas
|
Kea wrote: So, anyone taking bets on how long it's going to take for Congress to pull their heads out of their arses and reopen the government? Considering Ted Cruz is still blaming Obama and the Democrats even after Boehner's confession I wouldn't hold my breath.
|
|
|
|
|
|