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 Post subject: Conyers vs. Ohio
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:28 pm 
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I realize that this is long – I hope that you all will be tolerant…
For those who have yet to read the Conyers report which Weremensch linked to (entitled Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio), I strongly recommend that you get it and read it. For any among us who dismiss it as sour grapes, I ask you to read it while reversing all references to political affiliation and see if your judgement is the same.
I found the report deeply disturbing.
Here, for your reading pleasure (as it is not protected by copyright laws, and is freely available) is part of the summary taken from pages 98, 99 and 100. “Mr. Blackwell” is J. Kenneth Blackwell, who was both Secretary of State of Ohio and the co-chair of the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign:

“We believe there are ample grounds for challenging the electors from Ohio as being unlawfully appointed.
We say this for several reasons. First, there is considerable doubt that all controversies regarding the appointment of the electors were lawfully resolved six days prior to the meeting of the electors (on December 7) in order for the state’s electors to be binding on Congress as required by 3 U.S.C. Sec. 5. This is because, among other things, the Secretary of State appears to have intentionally delayed the initial certification of the electors until December 6, making it impossible for the recount (of which he was fully aware of) to be completed by December 7, let alone the December 13 meeting of the electors.
Second, there are numerous irrefutable instances where Ohio election law has been violated by the Secretary of State and others such that the election cannot be said to comply with Ohio law, and the electors cannot be considered lawfully certified under state law within the meaning of 3 U.S.C. Sec. 15. These violations of law are highlighted throughout this Report.
• The failure to provide adequate voting machinery would appear to violate
both Ohio’s Constitution, that provides all eligible adults the right to
vote, and the Ohio Revised Code which requires the Boards of Elections
to provide “for each precinct a polling place and provide adequate facilities
at each polling place for conducting the election.” Secretary of State
Blackwell’s failure to initiate any investigation into this pivotal irregularity notwithstanding his statutory duty to do so under Ohio Revised Code Sec. 3501.05, represents another likely violation of Ohio law.
• The “caging” tactics targeting 35,000 new voters by the Ohio Republican Party for preelection legal challenge were found by three federal courts to be illegal as being politically and racially charged, and burdening the fundamental right to vote. The tactic would also appear to violate Ohioans’ right to vote under the Ohio Constitution.
• Mr. Blackwell’s decision to prevent news media and exit polls from interviewing Ohio citizens after they voted was found by a federal court of appeals to have violated the First Amendment's guarantee that state conduct shall not abridge "freedom...of the press". His decision also likely violated Ohio’s Constitution that provides: “Every citizen may freely speak, write, and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of the right; and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech, or of the press.”
• Mr. Blackwell’s decision to prevent those voters who requested absentee ballots, but did not receive them on a timely basis from being able to vote, was found by a federal court to violate HAVA. This restrictive directive also likely violated Article 5, Section 1 of the Ohio Constitution, granting every Ohio citizen the right to vote if he or she is otherwise qualified.
• Numerous incidents of voter intimidation and misinformation engaged in Ohio on election day likely violate the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1968, and the Ohio right to vote. Mr. Blackwell’s apparent failure to institute a single investigation into these acts likely represents a violation of his statutory duty to investigate election misconduct.
• The voting computer company Triad has essentially admitted that it engaged in a course of behavior during the recount in numerous counties to provide “cheat sheets” to those counting the ballots. By insuring that election boards were in a position to conform their test recount results with the election night results, Triad’s actions may well have prevented scores of counties from conducting a full and fair recount. Triad’s action appears to violate Ohio law prohibiting election machinery from being serviced, modified, or altered in any way subsequent to an election, unless it is done so in the presence of the full board of elections and other observers.
• Numerous Ohio laws appear to have been broken in Greene County, where after initially being granted access to poll books to conduct an audit, election observers had this access abruptly revoked under the orders of Secretary Blackwell, and arbitrary and capricious practices and counting procedures that disenfranchised hundreds of voters were identified. These practices violate Ohio law requirements preventing the denial of public access to election records; requiring that ballots and machinery be kept absolutely secure; and protecting the right to vote.
• The Secretary of State’s failure to issue specific standards appears inconsistent with Ohio state law which charges the secretary of state with “[issuing] instructions by directives and advisories to members of the boards [of elections] as to the proper methods of conducting elections” and “[preparing] rules and instructions for the conduct of elections.”
• There were numerous specific irregularities in the recount that are inconsistent with several aspects of Ohio’s recount law. Those counties which did not randomly select the precinct samples violated the Secretary of State’s directive on this point. Those counties which did not conduct a full hand court after the 3% hand and machine counts violated Ohio’s statutory right to have inconsistent results rechecked. Those counties which allowed for irregular marking of ballots and which failed to secure and store ballots and machinery appear to have violated provisions of Ohio law mandating that candidates have the right to ensure that ballots are secure between the election and the official recount, that ballots may not be handled by anyone besides Board members and their staff, and may not be handled outside of the presence of the Board and qualifying witnesses. Finally, those counties which prevented witnesses for candidates from observing the various aspects of the recount violated provisions of Ohio law providing that candidates have the right to observe all ballots.
Whether the cumulative effect of these legal violations would have altered the actual outcome is not known at this time. However, we do know that there are many serious and intentional violations which violate Ohio’s own law, that the Secretary of State has done everything in his power to avoid accounting for such violations, and it is incumbent on Congress to protect the integrity of its own laws by recognizing the seriousness of these legal violations.”

Incidentally, for those who say that since Bush won Ohio by 118,000 votes, it’s a moot point – a cursory reading of this report seems to indicate that possibly much more than one hundred thousand votes were not or were mis-counted; predominantly in areas that could be assumed to vote heavily Democrat.
As to the issue of exit polls, pp 72-78 in the report make interesting reading, particularly to those with some statistical background.
As for the machine voting - it seems that when machine vote counts didn't match hand counts, Triad made sure that the hand counts were changed, as they assumed the machine counts were correct.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:28 pm 
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Hmm...I think, odds are, Bush would still come out ahead, but if it were more like 20,000 votes, I would say the election might have been stolen again.

At the very least, these claims should be investigated to confirm that Bush really did win Ohio, regardless of schedule, just for the sake of giving the American people confidence that the election was legitimately won this time.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:27 am 
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I'll bet if you add up all the votes that were strangely switched, the uncounted provisional ballots, and those who never got to vote because of the lack of machines in dem areas, you would get more than you'd think. Just look at the exit polls (before they were altered too). Exit poll discrepancies are an international sign of a rigged election.

It just goes to show you, we need to fight the GOP for EVERY posisiton, for every office, no matter how small. We can't trust any republican (politician), and must resist the urge to ever vote for one, because even a relatively minor position like a state secretary of state can defraud an entire country and bring the world war, famine and poverty.

All republican politicians are dangerous criminals, and we must recognize this fact and combat them at every step.

Any independant out there should espescially take note, and start being indecisive between the Libertarians and the Democrats.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:42 am 
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Big-O wrote:
All republican politicians are dangerous criminals, and we must recognize this fact and combat them at every step.


A very common viewpoint, but an illogical one. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can get an office as a selectman - if he ran as a Republican, does that automatically make him a criminal?

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:06 am 
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Lately, it seems like it. Or at least that only criminals are running as republicans. Anyone with a sense of decency or fair play is staying away from the party of DeLay.

Actually, our Secretary of State (Sam Reed of WA) is an honest Republican. Kind of scary actually, now he's in big trouble with the GOP for supporting ethical and honest elections over partisanship. So you could say he's the last, or one of the last, of a dying breed.

It's like looking at a tasmanian tiger or a dodo in a zoo....

The GOP is now a machine for generating political victory no matter the cost, and it is an effective one. So effective, that the worst of the party have been elevated far beyond where they should be, and the party is becoming all that it once fought against.

The Dems are going to have to become the same kind of machine, or face irrelevancy.

Weep for our broken democracy.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:06 pm 
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The GOP also preaches a political ideology that the voters agree with. It would really work if they'd just stop letting these rich corporations throw bribes around and enforce the law on them. But the point is that the message sounds like something good, and that's what gets the voters. The Dems may be more honest, but their policies negate that possible moral advantage. The GOP is winning these days because it is able to get people to ignore the criminals in its ranks and focus on issues.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:29 pm 
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BeefotronX wrote:
The GOP also preaches a political ideology that the voters agree with. It would really work if they'd just stop letting these rich corporations throw bribes around and enforce the law on them. But the point is that the message sounds like something good, and that's what gets the voters. The Dems may be more honest, but their policies negate that possible moral advantage. The GOP is winning these days because it is able to get people to ignore the criminals in its ranks and focus on issues.


Actually, the GOP is winning because they lie about their goals, oversimplify the issues, get people to focus on the itty bitty problems with Dem candidates instead of issues. You said it yourself: "The message sounds good". SOUNDS being the operative word. Anyone can spout a message--and the Reps have made it quite clear that they can't, or won't, follow up on them.

And the last thing the Dems should be doing is trying to become more like the Republicans, for God's sake! Ever see those action movies where the deep-voiced trailer-guy goes "The only way to defeat the enemy is to become them!"?
That's a horrible plan to apply to politics. We have two parties for a reason--so that they can be different ends of the political spectrum.
Also, there's that whole "don't sink to their level" thing.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:59 am 
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See, that is exactly the problem the Democrats are facing. They have become so used to opposing the Republicans that they barely think about it any more. Anything the Republicans do, good or bad, the Dems are prone to opposing. That is exactly the reason they have been losing.

We have two parties for a reason, but I don't see a reason why the Democrats have to be one of them. Yes, they actually practice what they preach, but what they do is not what many Americans want. Yes, the Dems say they represent the working man. The thing is that anyone with much ambition -- the desire to stop being so poor -- is not going to like a mindset that anyone who works hard enough to get wealthy has "won life's lottery" and somehow owes a fat wad of cash to the "less fortunate". Especially when a considerable portion of that cash doesn't go to the less fortunate, but to "overhead." The people of the United States aren't trustworthy enough to be given much responsibility. From chemicals to drugs to guns to zoning regulations, the American is not one to be trusted with responsibility over what he does with himself and his property.

Considering that the Republicans are currently dominated by what might be put mildly as people with a slightly fascist predisposition, we certainly don't need more statist authoritarians. Bring in the Libertarians. The extremist Libertarians (anarchists) will balance the extremist Republicans (theocrats/fascists) quite well, and the political upheaval might even smack a bit of honesty into the GOP if things are initially uncertain as to which party will survive.

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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:27 pm 
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That's a fun debate, but it's hardly the point - which was that it looks very much like the GOP has developed the techniques it used against McCain and Gore in 2000 to a high degree of effectiveness. Personally, I don't care what party does this kind of grossly and blatantly illegal vote-rigging; I just think if it passes unremarked and uncorrected, it doesn't look too good for representative government in this country. Once you can be sure that only the "right" votes count, then gerrymandering becomes unnecessary.

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