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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:03 pm 
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I came across this article today

Basically Ed Kramer is a co-founder of DragonCon. Since charges against him of child molestation, he has publicly distanced himself from the Con. He still however receives dividends which he has used to delay the trial by about ten years so far.

Creators are boycotting the event and calling for other creators to do so as well.

On the other side, DragonCon have tried to buy out Kramer but he's refused and taken legal action against them.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:58 am 
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If they think the con is the problem, why not create a new con in a new location at the same time and stop doing dragon con?

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Clearly you underestimate the importance of brand naming. DragonCon is DragonCon. If they did that, they'd need to start from the ground up as far as rebuilding their reputation goes. They might be able to attract some of the old fans and artists they used to get, but odds are very significant that they may never enjoy the same level of success again.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:52 pm 
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I realize that, but it may be the only way to sever the ties that bind.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:56 pm 
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DragonCon is a major influence. I've never been there and I don't know all that much about it, but if it's as influential as it seems to be than uprooting and leaving is something they just can't do. We're in hard economic times and I'd be willing to bet good money that the tourism from DragonCon is the only reliable source of income a lot of local businesses have. The potential impact of destroying the ties that bind could in fact be economically devastating.

Granted, from what I read in that article, Kramer is an individual that needs to be dealt with. We'd just need to find some sort of legal precedent for it... Let's take disassembling DragonCon out of the picture for a second, and simply leave it as a last resort. What other options exist that would allow us to take the beating stick of Justice and smacking Kramer with it? I mean besides getting a bunch of sharp sticks, writing Justice on them, and getting our mob on? (Though I'm not ruling that last one out)

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:05 pm 
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The problem is that owning a stake in dragoncon and his alleged misdeeds are mutually exclusive. Even if he were convicted and put in prison that would not sever his ties to the con and there is nothing that I know of that would disallow him from owning a share of it.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:34 pm 
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The article says that DragonCon know what needs to be done but are dragging their feet. They don't elaborate on what they think this might be. Legally Kramer isn't doing anything wrong by receiving the money and what he does with the money, though unsavoury, isn't illegal either. Nor is it illegal for DragonCon to remain quiet about his continued profit from the event though this is in my mind quite unethical. So it does fall to the creators and consumers to put their money where their mouths are.

It's all very well for the creators to boycot the event but they seem to be offering not alternative for the fans. I think this should be their next step. Be it signings at local bookshops or arranging a smaller event at the same time.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:25 am 
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It is not, so far as I know, unethical to pay convicted criminals, people who have done something bad, or poopyheads, money that is owed to them from a legitimate transaction.

Criminals receive interest. Criminals get the dividends from all other public corporations. Criminals continue to collect their stake in private corporations.

I guess the issue here isn't simply that he's getting money, it's that DragonCon hasn't done all it legally could to minimize the connection to him?

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:09 am 
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Where is our resident lawyer? Couldn't they authorities shut down dragoncon if it could be proven that it was used to aid in committing a felonious act?

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:34 am 
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Suppose someone has an all-regular, legitimate job, and eventually goes and robs a bank. The tools and weapons he needed for that were bought from his bank account, the same bank account his wages went into. Is it correct to say that his employer financed the crime? Is it legitimate to say so?
At least with regards to the 'legitimate' point, my answer is a clear no. Correct? Not quite as clear-cut, but also no.

This isn't even going into 'presumption of innocence'. Let's assume, as a thought experiment, that Kramer is innocent and is fighting for it in the courts. What would your opinion be of DragonCon using a legal (and at this point, we're down to grey-legal at best) maneouvre to remove his means to defend himself?
Btw, said legal paradigm makes this 'though experiment' a very real consideration.

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:05 pm 
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In this case he is technically part owner. If he is proven guilty and it is found that he used Dragoncon for the purpose to meet, solicit, and harm his victims doesn't that fall under the same sort of umbrella that is used against organized crime when they use their legitimate businesses to aid in their illicit activities?

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:08 am 
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I think ultimately it comes down to the fact that, even though his getting money from DragonCon might be perfectly legitimate, people are less willing to patronize a business when they know it puts money in the pockets of pedophile.

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