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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:35 pm 
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In all likelihood, Congress will do whatever the Republicans in the House think will best serve their various short term personal self interests regarding Puerto Rico.

In broader terms, southern Congresscritters have a long history of blocking the addition of any state that isn't white or protestant (which is why Cuba isn't a state). Unless they think they'll get a red state out of it without alienating any of the angry old white men, they'll probably continue to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:07 am 
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quantumcat42 wrote:
And you complain when people make fun of your pedantry?

Technically speaking, he wasn't being pedantic since he wasn't correcting or nitpicking. He was just being plain old ornery.

Yes, I do understand the irony of this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:57 am 
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Weremensh wrote:
In broader terms, southern Congresscritters have a long history of blocking the addition of any state that isn't white or protestant (which is why Cuba isn't a state).

Actually, Were, if you follow the history of "southern Conresscritters" back far enough you'll find them the most outspoken advocates of annexation of both Cuba and Mexico in the first half of the nineteenth century. It is opposition from Northern abolitionists that prevented either of those from happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:07 am 
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Kea wrote:
quantumcat42 wrote:
And you complain when people make fun of your pedantry?

Technically speaking, he wasn't being pedantic since he wasn't correcting or nitpicking. He was just being plain old ornery.

I believe the common use of "overly concerned with minutiae with a condescending tone" fits ok as he was unnecessarily rebuking the relative importance of my comment. Beats calling him an asshole.

One of my co-workers is from Puerto Rico -- it's great seeing how excited he is about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:25 am 
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If the republicans thought that Puerto Rico would have gotten them more electoral votes they would have made Puerto Rico a state a day or two before the election.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:41 am 
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Kea wrote:
arcosh wrote:
I suppose Grillick meant that they could have picked someone who is a honest nutbag, rather then an opportunist pretending to be one, and that there even were such honest nutbags, who even though they are crazy, show the neccessary skills to be president.

If there is any overlap between "nutbag" and "has the skills to be president" on a Venn diagram, then that area is very very small indeed. It's hard to imagine someone running a country competently when they've promised to adopt unreasonable and unrealistic political positions such as "It is never acceptable to raise taxes for any reason, ever".


Coming up with sensible policies is only part of the skills neccessary for a politican. There also is things like building alliances, not making enemies for no good reason, determinating which of your policies can be realistically introduced, given the other players that have the possibility to obstruct you, using tactics that actually work on thoose other players, ect. Regardless how sane your policies are, you still need the skill to actually implement them. And a politican lacking thoose skills, is a bad idea, regardless of his policies, because what actually will happen, is rather random.

I did not follow the election closely enough to make definite statement about Romneys abilities in that area, but my impression was that he is not particulary good at it, but also not spectaculary bad. BTW my impression on the Obama administration is, that they are quite competent in foreign policy, but in domestic policy not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Grillick wrote:
Weremensh wrote:
In broader terms, southern Congresscritters have a long history of blocking the addition of any state that isn't white or protestant (which is why Cuba isn't a state).

Actually, Were, if you follow the history of "southern Conresscritters" back far enough you'll find them the most outspoken advocates of annexation of both Cuba and Mexico in the first half of the nineteenth century. It is opposition from Northern abolitionists that prevented either of those from happening.

Apples and oranges. The abolitionists did not want Cuba and Mexico conquered; the Southerners did not want Cuba to become a State (which wasn't possible until after the Spanish American War anyway). The former doesn't imply any threat of black or Catholic voters entering the Union by the state load.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Right on Mexico, wrong on Cuba. As early as the 1810s, "southern Congresscritters" were advocating for the United States to aid revolutionary groups in Cuba against Spain. They wanted to provide them with military support and offer them statehood in the event they were successful. This was seen by northerners as an attempt to expand slavery in the United States, and was opposed on those grounds. Military conquest of Cuba didn't enter into the discussion until the Missouri Compromise.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting!!
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:12 pm 
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arcosh wrote:
Coming up with sensible policies is only part of the skills neccessary for a politican. There also is things like building alliances, not making enemies for no good reason, determinating which of your policies can be realistically introduced, given the other players that have the possibility to obstruct you, using tactics that actually work on thoose other players, ect. Regardless how sane your policies are, you still need the skill to actually implement them. And a politican lacking thoose skills, is a bad idea, regardless of his policies, because what actually will happen, is rather random.

All of those things require the politician to accept the possibility of compromise with one's opponents. The Republican primaries this year were so extreme that any "compromise" was portrayed as betrayal. The candidates actually attacked each other for having once compromised with Democrats on some issue, and they were competing to demonstrate how "pure" they were. This does not attract nominees who are skilled in the art of compromise, and the ones who were felt compelled to deny or conceal it. So the choices came down to "incompetent nutbag" or "competent liar".

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