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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:16 am 
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Today, Schlock said there is no magic in space.

I'm currently re-reading Oceans Unmoving, but I'm wondering about the connection between magic, space, and timeless space.

This subchapter being called "The Sparkless Void," there must be a relationship between the spark and magic.

But as someone said, there was magic in timeless space. (Don't have time to find the link now).

Can we consider Timeless Space as containing a spark? Or perhaps the people in it are representative of the spark, which is why when they come together, they have a stronger timeline?
Musings...

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:38 am 
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randomlanguage wrote:
But as someone said, there was magic in timeless space. (Don't have time to find the link now).


Is there really magic in timeless space, or is it just sufficiently-advanced technology?

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:17 am 
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randomlanguage wrote:
But as someone said, there was magic in timeless space. (Don't have time to find the link now).


Yep: Lord Golbez pointed out that Lady Noga seemed capable of using magic in Timeless Space…

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:54 pm 
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kansaichris wrote:
randomlanguage wrote:
But as someone said, there was magic in timeless space. (Don't have time to find the link now).


Yep: Lord Golbez pointed out that Lady Noga seemed capable of using magic in Timeless Space…

More things apparently due to magic:
http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2005-10-05
http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2005-10-19

That being said, she doesn't seem to do that much magic for a witch... Maybe magic is weaker (but still present) there for some reason. And of course there's Uncle Time and his god-magic or whatever.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:55 pm 
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I started to post the following in Reactions, but decided that I was crossing into speculation and moved it here and speculated more:

FullMetalArchivist wrote:
Sotanaht wrote:
randomlanguage wrote:
I guess I'm thinking the physical living plant could not survive. All of the water in the cells would have frozen, the cell walls ruptured...
And by space I mean the vacuum of space.
So Cappy Bo wouldn't have survived outside of the spaceship.

Nothing would have frozen just from exposure. Remember that vacuum is an insulator, astronauts have more to worry about disposing of excess heat than from the cold. Things do freeze in space eventually without a heat source (which the Sun should be sufficient here), but that would take a long time. My first assumption when I saw the dead plant was magic, or the lack thereof. Schlock just explained that magic doesn't work and we know that was a magic plant, so maybe that's why it died.

I'm also guessing the lack of magic explains the death of Cappy-Bo and the (fate?) spiders. Although, since Cappy-Bo has his own anti-magic field, you would think Cappy-Bo would have killed the spiders anyway if they need magic to survive. I don't know of any actual experiments, but I doubt space would kill a plant immediately. The vacuum should be a decent insulator, and they don't store large pockets of gases or have blood under pressure like animals. I think plants usually have water evaporate from them (to drive the suction of water from the ground by their roots), and that should happen faster in space (due to lower pressure), so it might dry out, and there is radiation. And they do need some oxygen as well as carbon dioxide, so it would eventually asphyxiate (or whatever the equivalent is that plants do) I guess. But given that Cappy-Bo was already abnormally hard to kill, I'm guessing lack of magic is the primary factor here.

Well, that is the question. Yes, Gwynn put Cappy into her suit, so I agree that they were not exposed to the vacuum of space - nor to extremes of temperature... Given that, I understand if Cappy Bo became just an ordinary plant, and the spiders became just ordinary spiders. But Cappy Bo is actually disintegrating - which implies that it's entire existence is magic-based. And I guess that must be true of the spiders. Which is odd - so far we know that there is (supposed to be) one fate spider - in charge of the web; and sometimes he gets a helper (that is sometimes something else disguised as a spider). Yet Pete has occasionally included spiders away from the fate web, implying a manipulation of fate, yet they can't have been the fate spider himself/herself. So what of the spiders?? Are they a fate spider 'army' that, like Cappy Bo, are entirely magic-based? Or are they ordinary spiders recruited for the fates? I presume, since they are dead/dying - that it is the former - that they are entirely magic-based.

If that's true - then that kind of implies that the entire spark is ultimately based in magic --> which may in turn imply something about the title of this chapter...

But perhaps Schlock is assuming something that's not true. Schlock's knowledge of magic apparently comes from Sin'thea. Clearly the fate spider and it's 'army' are based on fate-magic. So they die - rather than become simple spiders without powers... Apparently Cappy-Bo is based on fate-magic, as well. But Gwynn's powers come from a demonic source. Could that be different? Perhaps Gwynn is now (without Cappy Bo to suppress her abilities) a powerful witch...

But I'm confused about that part. My understanding is that the bug left Gwynn and is now wrapped up and magically confined in "the Book" along with Farahn, and that Farahn is actually giving her the power. While the power ultimately comes from PoopyPants, I don't understand how Gwynn's use of the power threatens to release PoopyPants?

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:40 pm 
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swmartian wrote:
But I'm confused about that part. My understanding is that the bug left Gwynn and is now wrapped up and magically confined in "the Book" along with Farahn, and that Farahn is actually giving her the power. While the power ultimately comes from PoopyPants, I don't understand how Gwynn's use of the power threatens to release PoopyPants?

I don't really know about the spiders either. It does seem like the plant, and maybe the spiders too, are magical enough that without magic to sustain their physical forms they die. I'm still confused, then, why the spiders should ever be able to approach Cappy-Bo, although I guess we may never have seen that happen except for right now.

As for the bug, we saw at ZHOAS' funeral that the bug is still able to influence Gwynn at times, and in an alarming way. Maybe having his whole soul all in one piece makes it easier for him. It still does seem a bit surprising that Gwynn assumes that if she goes back she will lose control for sure.

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:01 am 
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The demon formerly known as K'Z'K may not cause Gwynn to lose control right away, but I think past experience suggests that the bug would get the best of her eventually. From Gwynn's perspective, staying in space is therefore the only way to be truly safe from a spark-ending catastrophe.

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:47 am 
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I'm hoping the spiders dead with Cappy-Bo are not the three fate spiders who will save reality.

So, some meandering thoughts:

Taken as true:
Magic can't work in space.
K'z'k's power is magic,
does that imply that he is cut off from reality?
We know that the Destroyer's pillar could fall and that's the end of everything. No more sparks.
So...
Given all of these things, plus the subtitle "The Sparkless Void," are we going to see the Omega Pillar fall?

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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:24 am 
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I don't think that would happen in a random subchapter.

It could also be that things that operate outside the web don't fall under the "normal" magic rules. Chaz still works, and I still think Oasis has some magic involved in her duplication. I very much doubt hC has the details down on the entire use of magic.

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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am 
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Kesandru wrote:
I don't think that would happen in a random subchapter.

Hopefully not, but I put nothing past Pete.
Kesandru wrote:
It could also be that things that operate outside the web don't fall under the "normal" magic rules. Chaz still works, and I still think Oasis has some magic involved in her duplication. I very much doubt hC has the details down on the entire use of magic.

Yes, and we are privy to information hC does not have. All that happened in Mokhudun relating to magic and so on.
I always assumed that when we see spiders at various points, like this one where Schlock guesses someone might be pulling the strings, they were more representational than physically there.

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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:01 am 
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Well, I was sort of wrong, Chaz is affected, but still functional for decades. Artifacts or other things that are inherently magical might be semi-immune.

The spiders shrivelling up and dying right there seemed weird. It could be representational.

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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:57 am 
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Kesandru wrote:
The spiders shrivelling up and dying right there seemed weird. It could be representational.

If they are representational of the fate-spiders' influence, maybe everything now is out of their ability to "guide."
I wonder if Gwynn can see them.

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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:03 am 
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I'm starting to get the impression that, much as life was needed to support time bubbles in Timeless Space, life is needed to support magic bubbles in outer space. I don't think it's Earth per se that's special—it's the critical mass of life there that allows magic to exist.

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