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ramoss
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:24 pm |
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:39 am
Posts: 655
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The Malkavian wrote: Not sure if this has been brought up before. I've been doing an archive dive and ran across an interesting line on 100108 where Father Time is talking to the Time Spiders about the dinosaurs in the cavern beneath the surface: "The dinosaurs existed before the web, and so they operate outside of it. You know how dangerous that can be." Since Oasis is also said to be outside the web, it would then seem likely that at least part of her has existed since before the web, which would lead a lot of weight to the idea that there's a god or old spirit involved in the process at some point. Or, it could be that, only living beings are in the web, and oasis's mind is not living. The body has no mind of it's own, therefore it's innocent.
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FullMetalArchivist
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:39 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm
Posts: 202
Location: IL, US
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Bunny Suction wrote: Kesandru wrote: FullMetalArchivist wrote: Kesandru: "If Dunuloa isn't the person controlling the camera and making the Oasis bodies (not clones!) I'll be amazed.
I've long suspected she was involved in this. It'd be weird if she wasn't. And someone's definitely running that camera."
(Apparently you can only nest quotes three times).
I definitely believe Dunuloa is involved somehow, or her creations. But I can't see her spending all her time making Oasis bodies or monitoring the camera personally. Besides, the camera didn't turn to look at Chen at all.
I could see it if she didn't have a choice but to make the bodies. I'm gonna go back to Dr. Steve's "Controlled mind made human" comment. My theory is that he somehow enslaved Dunuloa (via Sin'Thea's fate magic, perhaps?) and forced her to use her abilities to create bodies to live in the real world, bodies which were under Steve's control, using Sin'Thea as a template. Dunuloa's mind is downloaded/imprinted onto each body after creation, with the memories of each previous incarnation carrying over, more or less. The problem with any other theory is that it doesn't make sense for someone other than Steve and Sin'thea to not be involved in this, and the evidence of that is the failed Steve-Rebirth process, clearly an adaptation of the O.A.S.I.S. process. In other words, Steve DIDN'T invent the process, he just took credit for it and tried to adapt it to his own end. Or he invented the Steve-Rebirth process first, which attracted the attention of Dunuloa, perhaps thinking she found a kindred spirit in the creation of life. Without some sort of outside involvement, the difference between the two at this point is just too great - why does one work perfectly and not the other? It can't be Oasis herself, since the only truly special thing about her is pyrokinesis. And it can't just be fate magic because then why wouldn't it work on Steve's clones? There's something we still don't know yet and my guess is it's Dunuloa. Oh, and the camera stayed fixed on Torg, because like Oasis, Dunuloa would share the fixation due to Steve's commands. Dunuloa was always the one he was commanding. Just a theory. I like this a lot. And I agree the "controlled mind made human" comment is paramount and should be taken as literally as possible. But there are some pieces still missing. If it's Dunoloa's mind being imprinted on each new body, why doesn't she know who she is? Are Dunoloa's own memories being blocked?. If you substitute 'a creation of Dunuloa' for 'Dunuloa', this is pretty close to my own thinking. Given that Dunuloa has been around for ages (if she still exists) and is skilled in magic, including shady magic, I think it would take quite a lot to somehow overpower her will and bind her to a task. But maybe less to steal something she made, or something like that.
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FullMetalArchivist
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm
Posts: 202
Location: IL, US
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The Malkavian wrote: Not sure if this has been brought up before. I've been doing an archive dive and ran across an interesting line on 100108 where Father Time is talking to the Time Spiders about the dinosaurs in the cavern beneath the surface: "The dinosaurs existed before the web, and so they operate outside of it. You know how dangerous that can be." Since Oasis is also said to be outside the web, it would then seem likely that at least part of her has existed since before the web, which would lead a lot of weight to the idea that there's a god or old spirit involved in the process at some point. There's another explanation for this that I've been toying with. In the second panel of http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2013-09-25, Uncle time says: "No unauthorized life within the fate web! It just makes a tangle of everything". And earlier (I think), Chaz says (panel 5 of http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2012-12-17): "Sentience where not expected can throw chaos into the cosmos. I can relate to this. Whatever they did to [the squid on a stick] gave it sentience. I felt it." This suggests to me that synthetic life and/or sentience can mess with fate, and possibly cause things to operate outside of fate. The hand wielding Chaz operates outside of fate, and the squid on a stick (plus some magic, it seems) overthrew an entire dimension, turning it into the DoP. Chaz kind of suggests that his own sentience is what gave him this power. So if Oasis is 'synthetic', that could be a part of why she operates outside of fate.
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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:47 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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I'm sure this was discussed to death ages ago, but between the two wouldn't Oasis more likely be Rana? She's the Sun twin after all, with fire powers, who was likely worshipped as Ra in ancient Egypt. Pretty strong candidate for being the host of an unkillable pyrokinetic outside the fate web.
Plus she's way more of a people person than Dunuloa became. If you're gonna capture a god, it's probably going to be one that's walking around in public.
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Kesandru
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:40 am |
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 1104
Location: Behind you.
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But Dunuloa was the one trying to create life. And now we know that Oasis is definitely created.
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Chickenhead
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:10 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:58 am
Posts: 142
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Aw heck...Pete and his recurring memes. So the big Kusari reveal has me combing back through the archives and stumbling on this: http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2001-03-04Ignoring the fact that the last frame shows Kusari with very Sasha-like eyes...she says "Know thyself, indeed." At the time I couldn't figure out why she said that. Last week, Oasis' recovery room with the stabby knife block has "Know thyself" written in latin. Arrrgh..with every door Pete closes, a dozen more open!
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Rombobjörn
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:58 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 9:56 am
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Chickenhead wrote: Aw heck...Pete and his recurring memes. So the big Kusari reveal has me combing back through the archives and stumbling on this: http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2001-03-04Ignoring the fact that the last frame shows Kusari with very Sasha-like eyes...she says "Know thyself, indeed." At the time I couldn't figure out why she said that. Last week, Oasis' recovery room with the stabby knife block has "Know thyself" written in latin. Arrrgh..with every door Pete closes, a dozen more open! More about knowing oneself: But if you'd ask me I'd say the quote should rightly be "Γνῶθι σεαυτόν".
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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:16 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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That would indeed be more apt, but I think the readers would have a bit more trouble pronouncing it. I mean, it all looks like Greek to me  Kesandru wrote: But Dunuloa was the one trying to create life. And now we know that Oasis is definitely created. That's true, but it assumes Dunuloa would experiment on herself, or that she'd even be involved with a bunch of unworthy traitorous humans who have decided to use her technology. If she's involved at all, it's because she sees this project as a means to further strike fear into humanity, but I feel like she'd be more inclined to take on the guise of the Kusari Sasha clones. Dressing up as a terrifying ninja seems more her deal. The alternate personas is certainly a point in that direction (like Dunuloa and Basphomy), plus Sasha and Riff are pretty similar and that was something Gwynn pointed out about Dunuloa. Of course, Sasha's tinkering turned out to be fraudulent (OR SO SHE CLAIMS), so it could really go either way. But I'm leaning toward the Sasha/Kusaris being operated by Dunuloa and the Oasises being run by Rana. ...and it's at this point that the next update proves none of this is true and both projects are operated by a hivemind of a thousand rabid squirrels
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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:05 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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Updated the OP with edits to the FACTS and TIMELINE sections, to better reflect what we currently know. The archive link list continues to remain horribly out of date, although I feel like this whole chapter can be distilled down into one link so it's probably not as much work as I think
Random thought: "Nosce Te Ipsum" being written on the mirror in the Rebirth Facility's prep room makes me wonder if it's a trigger word that keeps her new body brainwashed? Like the HC logo, certain phrases could be used to override commands in her programming. I wouldn't put it past Dr. Steve to have created a psychological trap that keeps Oasis from becoming self-aware, and then using a phrase related to self-awareness in order to reinforce it.
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Marcus
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:20 am |
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:00 am
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Okay so comes back to life with a new clone, presumably after current memories are dumped into the clone.
Okkkay. With Pete so far here. I think "Goddess who is being controlled" likihood gone waaaaay up here.
As I've said before, I think the difference between Sasha and O.A.S.I.S is the source of the mind. Sasha is likely a human source. O.A.S.I.S is some sort of Goddess with the other powers she has.
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kitoba
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:24 am |
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 12:00 am
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Website: http://kitoba.com
Location: Televising the revolution
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These clones are all grownups. But we've seen photos of O.A.S.I.S. as a child. Other than the fact that it would have been way beyond creepy if all those jars had been filled with little girls, what's the in-universe explanation here?
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Bunny Suction
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:58 am |
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 12:00 am
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Marcus wrote: Okay so comes back to life with a new clone, presumably after current memories are dumped into the clone.
Okkkay. With Pete so far here. I think "Goddess who is being controlled" likihood gone waaaaay up here.
As I've said before, I think the difference between Sasha and O.A.S.I.S is the source of the mind. Sasha is likely a human source. O.A.S.I.S is some sort of Goddess with the other powers she has. The evidence for this being correct is now reaching critical mass.
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erewhon
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:44 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:17 am
Posts: 443
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Bunny Suction wrote: Marcus wrote: Okay so comes back to life with a new clone, presumably after current memories are dumped into the clone.
Okkkay. With Pete so far here. I think "Goddess who is being controlled" likihood gone waaaaay up here.
As I've said before, I think the difference between Sasha and O.A.S.I.S is the source of the mind. Sasha is likely a human source. O.A.S.I.S is some sort of Goddess with the other powers she has. The evidence for this being correct is now reaching critical mass. Or the intelligence is an A.I. along the lines of the 4U city controlling A.I. Perhaps with the original Oasis brain at it's core.
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erewhon
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:02 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 3:17 am
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kitoba wrote: These clones are all grownups. But we've seen photos of O.A.S.I.S. as a child. Other than the fact that it would have been way beyond creepy if all those jars had been filled with little girls, what's the in-universe explanation here? Like Bioshock creepy? :-) Perhaps the little girl with Pyrotechnic psychic abilities came first and Steve took her mature DNA to begin his rebirth experiments. The numbers at the front of each line of pods seems to be row numbers, and the blank spaces at the front of each row suggest that there have been at least 7 Oasis rebirths decanted so far...
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FullMetalArchivist
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:50 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm
Posts: 202
Location: IL, US
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erewhon wrote: The numbers at the front of each line of pods seems to be row numbers, and the blank spaces at the front of each row suggest that there have been at least 7 Oasis rebirths decanted so far... Well, I do think Oasis has died seven times in-comic... - At Dr. Steve's base lab
- At 'the cliff' after she tried to marry Torg
- In the hospital after her fight with Kusari
- During DDA when clone-Aylee shish-kabobbed her and Sasha
- When Nash/Strom/etc. sniped her before she fought him
- When Nash/Strom decapitated her while she was in H-C custody
- When H-C sniped her just now
We can't really see the whole facility, but that might work out. Overall, I think this whole facility has a very organic feel, like the tanks are pods on vines. Plus Oasis seems wired into the camera system, and the place is somehow still running years later. And remember how Dr. Steve's base-lab somehow was buried underground before Torg or H-C knew where it was? I'm wondering if these buildings were/are 'alive' somehow, and that life is connected to Oasis.
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