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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:08 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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gregnier wrote: FullMetalArchivist wrote: And now we know that this thread should have been titled 'And Kusari are...' SO LET IT BE WRITTEN! SO LET IT BE DONE!MY GOD THE POWER! IT BLINDS! Chickenhead wrote: Now...what makes "Sasha" so special that she's the only one who can be Kusari? Other than the wicked fighting training, the shared mind, and the super healing (if it is super healing...who's to say we just don't see one of the clones who isn't injured?)... Kusari Sasha aught to be like Oasis: a single mind with many bodies. Two big differences though. 1) There's only the OASIS Rebirth facility as far as we know, which implies there are no additional Sashas beyond what Dade grew before falling out with Dr. Steve (actually it's more complicated than that since the OASIS Rebirth facility's location wouldn't be known to Dade). and 2) unlike Oasis, Kusari is self-aware. That's the big one. Whoever's mind controls Oasis, she may have been captured against her will. But whoever's mind controls the Sashas knows full well what she's doing.
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swmartian
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:50 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:59 pm Posts: 2150
Location: In "Still" waters...
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Yodimus_Prime wrote: Whoever's mind controls Oasis, she may have been captured against her will. But whoever's mind controls the Sashas knows full well what she's doing. But Kusari - and by extrapolation, Sasha(s) - is/are innocent. At least according to Chaz.
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FullMetalArchivist
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:16 am |
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm Posts: 202
Location: IL, US
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In http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2016-03-08, Schlock seems pretty upset about a Kusari dying and calls her a "finite" (not "limited") resource. I know it's hard to tell from just one strip, but this gives me more of a 'we can run out of Kusaris' vibe than a 'she has her limitations, like not being able to be in more than x places at once' vibe. Although there probably is a limit to that as well.
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Kesandru
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:06 pm |
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 1104
Location: Behind you.
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Well, I'm kinda bummed that it wasn't Crabtree.
But now I'm positive both Kusari/"the Sashas" and Oasis were made in some way by Dunuloa.
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Lord Golbez
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:46 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:50 pm Posts: 1772
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I don't understand why everyone is so set on trying to interpret the three pins as all being Sasha. Didn't Pete already pretty much confirm that Izzy was one of them?
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Yodimus_Prime
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:27 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1697
Website: http://econniff.blogspot.com/
Location: Just outside the city limits
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Their bodies are innocent. Their minds are not their own. It's a loophole. Similar to the spec people had that Oasis was being reborn as unsuspecting people (and shapeshifing I guess?), and that's why she powered Chaz, but with cloning and a hivemind instead.
If Chaz used blood from the Sashas' host, it would not be powered.
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FullMetalArchivist
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:25 am |
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm Posts: 202
Location: IL, US
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Yodimus_Prime wrote: Their bodies are innocent. Their minds are not their own. It's a loophole. Similar to the spec people had that Oasis was being reborn as unsuspecting people (and shapeshifing I guess?), and that's why she powered Chaz, but with cloning and a hivemind instead.
If Chaz used blood from the Sashas' host, it would not be powered. That seems to go along with http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2013-06-17 pretty well, when Chaz was powered up by the blood of those hounds. While Kusashi seems to be under such strict control by Hereti-Corp that I could believe she counts as innocent, Oasis seems to have taken enough initiative that I have a hard time believing she would be except by some loophole, yet she powered Chaz. Although after what we've seen it's harder to support the 'body-snatching' theory in particular (which I never particularly liked anyway, so I guess I'm biased).
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Kesandru
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am |
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 1104
Location: Behind you.
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FullMetalArchivist wrote: Yodimus_Prime wrote: Their bodies are innocent. Their minds are not their own. It's a loophole. Similar to the spec people had that Oasis was being reborn as unsuspecting people (and shapeshifing I guess?), and that's why she powered Chaz, but with cloning and a hivemind instead.
If Chaz used blood from the Sashas' host, it would not be powered. That seems to go along with http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2013-06-17 pretty well, when Chaz was powered up by the blood of those hounds. While Kusashi seems to be under such strict control by Hereti-Corp that I could believe she counts as innocent, Oasis seems to have taken enough initiative that I have a hard time believing she would be except by some loophole, yet she powered Chaz. Although after what we've seen it's harder to support the 'body-snatching' theory in particular (which I never particularly liked anyway, so I guess I'm biased). Chaz' definition of innocent has always been a bit muddied, but I'd say regardless of any independent actions, an artificial body designed to simulate life imprinted with a controlled thought pattern is probably enough to consider innocent, along the same lines as the "hounds". Although it does make me wonder if any other substance aside from blood can power Chaz, because simulated life or not, whatever Oasis is bleeding isn't really blood. Same might go for Kusari/the Sashas.
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randomlanguage
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:06 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:32 pm Posts: 1642
Location: under a pile of papers
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FullMetalArchivist wrote: Yodimus_Prime wrote: Their bodies are innocent. Their minds are not their own. It's a loophole. Similar to the spec people had that Oasis was being reborn as unsuspecting people (and shapeshifing I guess?), and that's why she powered Chaz, but with cloning and a hivemind instead.
If Chaz used blood from the Sashas' host, it would not be powered. That seems to go along with http://archives.sluggy.com/book.php?cha ... 2013-06-17 pretty well, when Chaz was powered up by the blood of those hounds. I had forgotten the intensity of Torg in that sequence! Kesandru wrote: Chaz' definition of innocent has always been a bit muddied, but I'd say regardless of any independent actions, an artificial body designed to simulate life imprinted with a controlled thought pattern is probably enough to consider innocent, along the same lines as the "hounds".
I'm tempted to write some literary analysis of innocence in Sluggy as I might have done in university. I think that would be fun! Alas, I have to work instead, which means other kinds of writing. Who knows, I might attempt it in off moments.
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Bunny Suction
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:51 am |
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 750
Location: *insert something clever here*
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Lord Golbez wrote: I don't understand why everyone is so set on trying to interpret the three pins as all being Sasha. Didn't Pete already pretty much confirm that Izzy was one of them? Huzzuhwhah? (Translation: I don't think so, but if I missed that somehow can you point me to it?)
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Bulbazak
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:12 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 am Posts: 7
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There are six Kusari. Each letter stands for the first name of the individual Kusari, i.e. S, the third letter, stands for Sasha. There's some sort of overmind or program that controls them, but each member also has their own personality and has the potential to grow. Hc wouldn't want their Kusaris to be anything more than slaves, though, so they're likely highly regulated and kept as blank slates. This explains why Sasha is different personality-wise to any of the Kusari we've seen so far. She started evolving and developing her own feelings, but she's been unable to break from the control of the overmind, even though there's evidence that she wants to. I still don't think we've seen the last of that particular clone, though.
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FullMetalArchivist
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:37 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm Posts: 202
Location: IL, US
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Bulbazak wrote: There are six Kusari. Each letter stands for the first name of the individual Kusari, i.e. S, the third letter, stands for Sasha. There's some sort of overmind or program that controls them, but each member also has their own personality and has the potential to grow. Hc wouldn't want their Kusaris to be anything more than slaves, though, so they're likely highly regulated and kept as blank slates. This explains why Sasha is different personality-wise to any of the Kusari we've seen so far. She started evolving and developing her own feelings, but she's been unable to break from the control of the overmind, even though there's evidence that she wants to. I still don't think we've seen the last of that particular clone, though. Hmmm... I might buy it. From the Oasis thread: Bunny Suction wrote: FullMetalArchivist wrote: [*]During DDA when Cloney shish-kabobbed her and Sasha That double-skewering has bothered me since the DDA days. Something always seemed significant about it, but I could never put my finger on what. Over the years I fixed in on the idea that Oasis' and Sasha's blood was comingled by the event, leading to... well, I never really sorted that out. But in light of what we now know, I think that idea was a red herring. I'm calling it - "Sasha" totally died from that wound (in the hospital). The Sasha that re-appeared shortly after that was a whole other copy. I was listing the times when Oasis died. I suppose it's appropriate to list when Kusari or Sasha has died as well, the better to see just how limited of a resource she might be. I can only think of a few times: - When Oasis took off her head (as Kusari) during Fire and Rain
- When Menelaus (minor character; Vrykolak vampire who is now dead) decapitated her (as Kusari) after her fight with Urja. This is when Schlock made his "finite resource" comment.
- When Oasis stabbed her as Sasha during her post-betrayal meeting with Riff
Then she might have died (as Sasha) when clone-Aylee stabbed her and Oasis. She was dropped off at the hospital and came back later, but maybe she died and Hereti-Corp replaced her. I suppose she might have died (as Kusari) after breaking Feng's fall when he infiltrated Hereti-Corp. That is when her leg was supposedly broken and she was seen walking again later that day or something like that. And I guess she might have died when Oasis pinned her to a wall (as Kusari) in Fire and Rain. And some people have guessed that Sasha died and came back to life when she and Torg were raiding Nofun (she was shot), but that doesn't seem to be how this all works based on what we've seen (and I see no reason to think her wound wasn't survivable). So that leaves us with three confirmed deaths plus two bodies we just saw now. And another three possible deaths of varying degrees of plausibility. Unless I'm forgetting anything?
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rajaewart
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:23 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm Posts: 5
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FullMetalArchivist wrote: Another question - why didn't Kusari/Sasha try to kill Riff the moment he was distracted? Kusari has never had reservations about following kill orders to the letter with extreme prejudice, and Schlock still has Riff as the primary target, as far as we know. Sasha didn't hesitate to follow a kill order on Riff immediately in China. 1) I think that Kusashi has developed a liking for the gang. It has no effect on her following orders, but she does seem to try to be nice to them even when it's not required (eg when she came back to see Torg after taking back the HC data). 2) The kill order on Riff is only a general kill order that applies to all HC staff. Kusashi wasn't specifically charged with killing him. When she had a clear, open shot she took it, but she didn't put any effort into follow up. 3) Kusashi got a personal override to NOT kill Riff for the nanobot tagging operation. I think she is using what little wiggle room she has to continue to treat Riff as no longer on the instakill list. Also, now we know why there are no Kusari-mask smilies Of course :schlock: is still missing?
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Kesandru
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:18 am |
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:00 am Posts: 1104
Location: Behind you.
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So, she didn't kill Riff because of a loophole. She obeys the letter of the order but not the intent. This explains a lot about her/them.
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TCCPhreak
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:56 am |
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Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:16 am Posts: 156
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Kesandru wrote: So, she didn't kill Riff because of a loophole. She obeys the letter of the order but not the intent. This explains a lot about her/them. I read today's comic a bit different: Having a choice seems to be a rare and terrifying thing for them - just as if they were used to having someone higher up to give orders or answer questions. Regards, TCC
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