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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:45 pm 
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MerlinOfChaos wrote:
The real issue I have with Kusari being Dr Lorna is that she doesn't qualify as one of "those kids".


I hear you, and I'm not saying Kusari is actually Lorna, but her clone.

Besides, to us the reader, she's not one of those kids, but Schlock is relatively old, Brian Rammer was his son, and he (Brian) was older than Torg and Riff (at least that's the feeling I got), So Lorna, dragged into crazy HC shenanigans, and her _clone_ (which is really the 'kid' Schlock was talking about) younger than Lorna, and was brought up, _raised_, by Daedelus (whom Schlock frequently derided as an idiot), who is an unstable clone of an unstable mad scientist, I can see where the clone could easily fit into _Schlock's_ definition of 'those kids'.

(Edit: I think I used a few to many commas in that run on sentence, but it's ok, it's just my stress induced psychosis acting up in the face of yet another cliffhanger.). :)


Last edited by Jimmymac on Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:47 pm 
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Jimmymac wrote:
MerlinOfChaos wrote:
The real issue I have with Kusari being Dr Lorna is that she doesn't qualify as one of "those kids".


I hear you, and I'm not saying Kusari is actually Lorna, but her clone.

Besides, to us the reader, she's not one of those kids, but Schlock is relatively old, Brian Rammer was his son, and he (Brian) was older than Torg and Riff (at least that's the feeling I got), So Lorna, dragged into crazy HC shenanigans, and her _clone_ (which is really the 'kid' Schlock was talking about) younger than Lorna, and was brought up, _raised_, by Daedelus (whom Schlock frequently derided as an idiot), who is an unstable clone of an unstable mad scientist, I can see where the clone could easily fit into _Schlock's_ definition of 'those kids'.


Maybe qualifies as a kid, but not THOSE kids, still. But that's quibbling a lot on one word, and this is Pete. Still, I'm having trouble accepting it.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:59 pm 
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MerlinOfChaos wrote:
Maybe qualifies as a kid, but not THOSE kids, still. But that's quibbling a lot on one word, and this is Pete. Still, I'm having trouble accepting it.



Well, if my other spec is right, and she's the clone daughter of the woman forced to raise the son (Riff) of the Fate Witch, (forced by her daughter (Sasha) being held hostage and raised as a spy by HC), so he (Riff) could be close to the son (Torg) of Kada and Callix, blessed by the Fate God, and help stop the destroyer without breaking the pillars, well, I came up with the theory, and I get confused.

I imagine to Schlock, reading about it second hand in Steve's and Daedelus' notes they would all sort of jumble together.

Or I could be on the totally wrong track.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:07 pm 
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There are too many premises (Sasha is Lorna's daughter, Riff is Synthea's son, Lorna was forced to raise Riff, Kusari is a Lorna clone, etc, etc) for me to fully parse. But... that "Riffington" from Bun Bun. It screams foreshadowing.

Okay. I don't know about the rest of the premises, but what about this?... Riff's father is connected with Synthea for reasons we don't fully understand. This we essentially know. What if Riff's dad aided in Lorna's cloning for Synthea's use? It would be totally consistent with his deceptiveness thus far and would eliminate the need to wedge Sasha and lies about true parentage into the equation. I originally thought Sasha's true alliance was not to the gang or to Hereticorp anyway, but to Uncle Time/the preservation of reality (and that she was Torg's sister born to Kada and Calix in timeless space). And that she'd done all she's done out of necessity to try and force an essential outcome. Her being Kusari destroyed that line of spec but also felt inevitable. If Kusari is at least cloned from Lorna, it all still holds.

Damn... damn... I think I'm convinced.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:10 am 
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No. I'm putting my money on "Anyone but Dr. Lorna or her clone."

It's just too far-fetched. Dr. Lorna was a parody throw-away character. Sure, she's Riff's mom. But that's it. She's always been outside the weird, more or less. To tie her into this, even with secret cloning, would give her an entire secret backstory that had NEVER been remotely hinted at until this latest strip. "Riffington" could just be Bun-Bun being Bun-Bun and poking fun at Riff.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:09 am 
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I'm guessing Kusari is a Sasha clone.

What would make the clones different from Oasis? That they don't share the same mind as Oasis' bodies do, but are different people, though identical. They might have grown up together, but are now kept in a sleeping state to be awakened when one of them dies.

It might even be that the re-awakened clone has information from the previous clone somehow.... Either through a telepathic link or through an imbedded microchip.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:21 pm 
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I think the difference is going to turn out to be not the physical part but the mental. I think Oasis is some kind of spirit/demon who's been put into the clones, whereas Kusari will lack that aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:51 pm 
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MerlinOfChaos wrote:
The real issue I have with Kusari being Dr Lorna is that she doesn't qualify as one of "those kids".

I know that a lot of folks jumped on that line to justify the Kusari=Sasha theory. Kusari MUST be ONE of THOSE kids. But I never interpreted that conversation that way in the first place.

Pete wrote:
Schlock (looking unhappy or downcast): What /is/ the same is how bad I feel for how those kids got roped into all of this.
Kusari: I assume you're speaking of Torg, Zoë and Riff...? And of me?
--
Schlock: Oh yes. I've read your files too, Kusari. I /*know*/ what's under that mask.
Kusari: You seem to be expecting some kind of reaction from me.
--
Schlock: Could you /*pretend*/ to be ashamed?

Schlock was referring to Torg, Zoë, & Riff (period). And Kusari said as much. I interpreted "And of me?" to be a "what about me? I didn't have a choice, either." Not "what about me? Aren't I one of "those kids" too?" And for me, that is why the conversation did not work for Kusari=Sasha. I never interpreted this conversation as meaning that Kusari was one of "those" kids. Schlock's last line there suggests that there is a connection to "those" kids, and that is all. I think it fits this most recent line of spec rather well.

What this conversation does imply is that Kusari is someone that is known to "those kids" and vice-versa. That connection makes for a convoluted storyline no matter which way you twist it, and some of us are going to be rather unhappy at the reveal no matter who it ends up being. But I trust the master. It has been a good story, and it will continue to be a good story...

As I said previously... The Bunny knows more than he's letting on - he is a god, after all. And a lot of foreshadowing has been planted in the Bunny's snark along the way. (I might not have caught on to that part of it, except I recently decided to dive into the archives about halfway through...)

I'm not sure I quite follow the spec of others as to how Sasha fits into this. She has similarities to the La'Mort family... And the dialog regarding Kusari's "feelings" (or lack thereof) about Agent Sasha's death infers a close connection. But some of this rather convoluted spec seems to end up with her being Riff's sister or something along those lines... Remember that they were "involved", and I really don't think that Pete is going to go there because of that "involvement". They will be 'related' in a bigger picture kind of way, but not as siblings or half siblings, or even first cousins (clone or not).

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:34 am 
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swmartian wrote:
MerlinOfChaos wrote:
The real issue I have with Kusari being Dr Lorna is that she doesn't qualify as one of "those kids".

I know that a lot of folks jumped on that line to justify the Kusari=Sasha theory. Kusari MUST be ONE of THOSE kids. But I never interpreted that conversation that way in the first place.

Pete wrote:
Schlock (looking unhappy or downcast): What /is/ the same is how bad I feel for how those kids got roped into all of this.
Kusari: I assume you're speaking of Torg, Zoë and Riff...? And of me?
--
Schlock: Oh yes. I've read your files too, Kusari. I /*know*/ what's under that mask.
Kusari: You seem to be expecting some kind of reaction from me.
--
Schlock: Could you /*pretend*/ to be ashamed?

Schlock was referring to Torg, Zoë, & Riff (period). And Kusari said as much. I interpreted "And of me?" to be a "what about me? I didn't have a choice, either." Not "what about me? Aren't I one of "those kids" too?" And for me, that is why the conversation did not work for Kusari=Sasha. I never interpreted this conversation as meaning that Kusari was one of "those" kids. Schlock's last line there suggests that there is a connection to "those" kids, and that is all. I think it fits this most recent line of spec rather well.


That interpretation doesn't make sense. Why would she be saying "what about me?" at all? She's not. She's asking if he meant her too. "And of me." The "of" there refers back to "speaking of." I don't see how you could interpret it to refer to anything else. It would be an extremely awkward way to phrase any other meaning. If she meant "what about me," she would have said that. It's not "aren't I one of those kids" or "I didn't have a choice" (although either or both of those could be reasons she asked the question). It's "do you mean me too?" Whether Schlock actually meant her or not is immaterial. That's what she's asking.

Also, the Dr. Lorna thing isn't bad because she's not "one of those kids." It's bad because it's hamfisted and comes from out of nowhere, whereas a lot groundwork has been laid down for Sasha=Kusari. I also think Crystal = Kusari would be equally bad, even though she could be considered "one of those kids." In fact, Torg, Zoe, and Riff are all adults. Dr. Lorna is older than them, but surely young compared to Schlock. You can't rule out that he might refer to her as one of "those kids," although it seems unlikely.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:30 am 
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My last minute money (presumably: Pete could conceivably switch back to Torg after this. I wouldn't put it past him), is still on Sasha. Sure, it's a obvious and predictable choice, but the fact that this arc made a point of bringing her back and then dropping her so abruptly is setting off my narrative bells.

Plus, there have been things about Sasha's behavior that have been bugging me for a while, but might be explained if she was Kusari. Mostly, the kill order. I've been thinking a lot about how - as a deep cover operative, and presumably HC's only deep cover operative in play against Torg - Sasha following the kill order on Riff was neither in her own nor HC as a whole's best interests. Sure, the order exists, but Sasha is supposedly a very versatile agent - instead of maintaining her cover or working with the situation, she just throws it all away to fulfill the order immediately, which resulted in a net loss for HC as she blew everything for no gains (ultimately leading to this complete downfall). Which would fall in line with Kusari being forced to follow orders - even if they're not in her own best interest - because those are her orders. Likewise, Sasha in the current arc is the first HC agent (besides Kusari) we've seen willing to walk into a situation where she's expected to die to save the company - it's possible that she's simply fanatically loyal, but if that's the case then we have Pete kind of up a character trait like that in the background but not really using it or even drawing attention to it as an aspect of her characterization - since she's barely been focused on - and Pete's not that kind of writer.

Now, if she were Sasha and a Dr. Lorna clone, that would be fun.


Last edited by CodeBlack on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:42 am 
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I'm with you on the kill order. Even if Kusari is not Sasha, I think she is a sister.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Lord Golbez wrote:
Also, the Dr. Lorna thing isn't bad because she's not "one of those kids." It's bad because it's hamfisted and comes from out of nowhere, whereas a lot groundwork has been laid down for Sasha=Kusari. I also think Crystal = Kusari would be equally bad, even though she could be considered "one of those kids." In fact, Torg, Zoe, and Riff are all adults. Dr. Lorna is older than them, but surely young compared to Schlock. You can't rule out that he might refer to her as one of "those kids," although it seems unlikely.

But I'm not convinced that "a lot" of groundwork has been laid down for Sasha=Kusari. It may not 'come out of nowhere' at this point, but it kinda does. Why have one clone masked and the other unmasked? It's not like clones were such a big secret in hC...

Right now we know that whatever is underneath the mask is something that rocks Riff's world to the core. Sasha is kind of past that... If Sasha is Kusari, it would surprise Riff, but would it shock him? I'll concede that she is still in the running because of the 'kill shot' argument. She does appear to be a "controlled mind". And she bears resemblance to the Sin'thea daughters - well, Monicruel, at least. But that still doesn't mean she HAS to be Kusari. Sasha has never came across as snarky, even when she revealed herself - Kusari is full of snark, in spite of being a "controlled mind". And Sasha appears to be shorter than Kusari.

Crystal would be a surprise, but also not one that would 'rock Riff's world to the core'.

At one point Zoë was mentioned. That would more than rock Riff's world to the core. However, the only way it even remotely makes sense is if a burned Zoë from another dimension was resurrected to the point of life - and control, masked to hide the burns, and then dumped onto this dimension for some odd reason... This possibility seems to be the most convoluted. Even if you take into consideration that Kusari is obviously a "clone" of someone - not THE someone. I don't see any reason that Zoë was even remotely connected to hC and why they would have her DNA... Tooo complicated.

Sheriff Deer would be hilarious for a moment or two, but then completely unworkable.

Dr. Lorna. I agree that it seems out of left field. But Riff's father was obviously entangled in weird stuff from before we met the gang - so why not Dr. Lorna, too? If Kusari was her, it would most definitely rock Riff's world! But wrapping her back into the story now would take a lot of writing skill. The Bunny gives this possibility its credibility.

It is worth repeating again: Pete hides a lot of foretelling in the snark of the Bunny.

Dr. Lorna is the only one that calls him Riffington... ...Or is she?

We first meet Izzy when our Riff becomes known as 7433464866.

You may argue that we know her backstory. But do we know all of it? What we do know is that she would have sold herself to the devil himself to keep her little brother safe. Did she really teach herself those mad hacker skills? She is the right height... And it was implied that she's been an hC prisoner before this last stint as their prisoner. But why clone her? That is the question......

I'm not sold on any of these possibilities. I would rather have just kept Kusari as Kusari. But since she's been unmasked and we're about to learn her deep dark secret... And since no one else put it out there, it had to be said.

Edit: Interestingly, the "those kids" conversation takes place shortly after the gang first meets the Minion Master (and therefore, Izzy - if very indirectly...)

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Kusari being Aylee would also rock Riff's world, to an extent. Maybe what the headbutt made him notice was that Kusari had no actual nose. Aylee would also fit the "those kids" line and explain Kusari's mannerisms.

Regardless, we'll find out soon enough. I'd say Friday but we're not on a normal schedule anymore when it comes to cliffhangers.

(I don't think it's Aylee, just pointing out that you could fit almost anyone under that mask with enough leaps of logic. My thinking is an alt-Zoe.)

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:04 am 
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Well, this argument is settled.

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 Post subject: Re: And Kusari is...
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:43 am 
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I'm thinking either evil twin sister, a clone (who may or may not be our Sasha), or she is wearing a second mask.

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