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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:41 pm 
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I think that Basphomy forgot because Bun-Bun and the Deus Ex Ovum were minor players from her point of view of those events. If Bun-Bun vs. Santa was a minor part of a wider war between Hollidays, then she might have forgotten about his role.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:36 pm 
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If Bun Bun was the original Easter Bunny, and then he lost that title at a certain point for a very, very good reason we don't know yet, then why would he ever be approached by any avatar or council to become the Easter Bunny again? (as in - this is exacly what happened in the comic) If this is actually the case, then it's not just Bun Bun repeating history, but the entire Holiday council as well.

Kinda suspicious if you ask me, which is why I doubt it. If you really want to hold on to this theory, you're going to have to accept the strong possibility that someone on the inside, who isn't Bun Bun, is trying to sabatoge things for reasons we don't know.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:47 pm 
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As I said in my earlier post, the Holiday Council (with the exception of Santa and Mrs. Claus) would have had their memories erased to prevent anyone (ahem, Basphomy) from following in Bun-bun's footsteps. It's this memory erasure that allows Bun-bun to follow in Bun-bun's footsteps, nobody remembers that he's already done it. Once again, that is except for Santa and Mrs. Claus.

The only flaw I can find in this spec is "Why didn't Santa and Mrs. Claus let the other Holidays know that Bun-bun was coming for them?" Once he had Easter and Groundhog's Day, they should have prepared the other Holidays. Of course, Santa was an alien and Mrs. Claus was hiding out with the Black Ops Elves planning her next move, so it's possible that they just didn't notice what was going on.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:11 pm 
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Before becoming Santa, the figure was Odin, St. Nick, or several others which got smashed together through cultural diffusion.
If Bun-Bun has always been a bunny, he had to get his badditude from somewhere. Why not his mom? And if she was such an unholy terror, it might fall to a saint or god to stop her. Bun-Bun eventually gets over the shock, and goes after the killer, only to find he's know the spirit of Christmas. That doesn't stop him, and the young Santa tosses him out the window. ^Wait a sec! Why would Santa be in the halls of time?^
The original arc of alien santa mentions his attempts to stay ahead of the toy curve with genetics, beyond the alien usurpery. If the guy's gonna make gene-mods into stocking stuffers, he might very well have asked Father Time for a glimpse of next year's big seller. Which happened to be when Bun-Bun poing-of-doomed through the doors.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:57 am 
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The Max wrote:
Before becoming Santa, the figure was Odin, St. Nick, or several others which got smashed together through cultural diffusion.
If Bun-Bun has always been a bunny, he had to get his badditude from somewhere. Why not his mom? And if she was such an unholy terror, it might fall to a saint or god to stop her. Bun-Bun eventually gets over the shock, and goes after the killer, only to find he's know the spirit of Christmas. That doesn't stop him, and the young Santa tosses him out the window. ^Wait a sec! Why would Santa be in the halls of time?^
The original arc of alien santa mentions his attempts to stay ahead of the toy curve with genetics, beyond the alien usurpery. If the guy's gonna make gene-mods into stocking stuffers, he might very well have asked Father Time for a glimpse of next year's big seller. Which happened to be when Bun-Bun poing-of-doomed through the doors.


Bun-Bun/Norse Mythology connections? As someone with a History degree and a huge interest in mythology (teaser knowledge: Bacchus was a real individual in history), I'll get back to this thread in the morning when I'm not drinking my Section 8 Screwdrivers (1 part vodka, 1 part triple sec, 1 part no-pulp orage juice).

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:51 am 
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Ah, Max touches on an important point to remember: Santa's may be judging whether you're bad or good, but nobody judges him, and it often shows through. He's proven to be manipulative and superficial more often than benevolent and kind-hearted, which kinda speaks to the actual holiday a little bit. But aside from the satire, it means a) don't underestimate him and b) he's not necessarily the good guy, merely the guy in charge.


Also, there's a perfectly reasonable chance that Bun bun's mother was herself a god. Note that none of 'em are around anymore, or so it seems.

Y'know, there's that long-running rumor that the final chapter of Sluggy Freelance will be titled "On This Day, All Gods Die" I doubt there's much truth to it, but if it is the planned chapter title, then this here would probably be the path that would shed the most light on its meaning.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:05 am 
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So.... apparently Bun bun's current plans have led him to undercut Santa, deliver HIS gifts to the masses and create, irony of all irony's a "Christmas miracle!" Not to mention help Zoe and Torg...

This is quite interesting... our mighty mini-lop has definately been showing a mischevious, yet fairly softer side this week, with his treatment of Kiki and new modes of dealing with Santa. Not sure where its taking us, but its definately proving interesting...

Could we be seeing the start of a new strategy? Perhaps getting back at Santa by undercutting and outDOING him? The thought of Bun bun NOT using violence seems insane, but it seems a distinct possibility as his character matures.

Of course, I'm sure he'll never give up arse-kicking... he might just realize there are other ways to fight his battles... and the importance of actually looking out for his friends for once.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:13 am 
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Goatlord42: It's late, so you'll have to excuse me for being confused. How exactly is Bun-bun trying to undercut Santa? The way I read the comic, Bun-bun used Kiki to scare Santa into dropping all of the gifts on the highway. Then people found out about it and started running off with the gifts, leaving Santa with nothing to give out.

I don't think Bun-bun is trying to outdo Santa, he's just looking to humiliate him. What are people going to think about Santa when he has no gifts? Undercutting and outdoing Santa would require either lots of money or lots of slave labor and a measure of generosity, and as far as we know, Bun-bun doesn't have any of that.

And how is Bun-bun looking out for his friends? He just knocked Santa out of the air, he didn't know that Torg would end up with a PS3 because of it.

No, I think Bun-bun is the same sociopathic smartass with a switchblade that we've all grown to love. It just so happens that this time, his plan happened to benefit two people that he knows. (and wouldn't it make him mad to know how that worked out :) )

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:33 am 
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While you're correct with your asessment as it relates specifically to the Sunday comic, Lesotheron, I believe Goatlord jumped to his biased conclusions based on the very real changes we've been seeing in bun bun's behavior as of late. Specifically, bun bun has been rationalizing. Old bun bun would have had no conflict regarding what to do about Santa: Santa must be killed on principle. And that would solve that and he'd set about doing it, regardless of whether or not he knew for sure Santa was the reason for all his woes.

But that's not what he did. Granted, the outcome was basically the same, but it was preceeded by inner conflict. That's what's important. I don't think we've ever seen bun bun question his movtivations before, prior to this storyline.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:28 am 
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Bun-bun questioned his motivations, yes - because he had reason to.

I've always felt that Bun-bun is far deeper and more thoughtful a character than his initial appearances showed (and in all honesty, I'm sure Pete no doubt meant him to be nothing more than a gag item at first, so perhaps "always" is going a bit overboard - but you get my drift), and his latest ones bear that out. He meant to harass Santa, yes on "general principal" - but his doubts kept his traditional projectiles flying at Santa in the decidedly non-lethal category this year. He's thinking about things, while still being characteristically "Bun-bun".

I still hold that most of Bun-bun's sociopathic personality is an act designed to shield him from the pain of personal connections - and yet, like all of us, he can't help but develop them. So the more outrageous he behaves, the better shielded he himself feels. Unfortunately for his "shielding strategy", he's fallen in with a group of people who not only take his obvious impossibility for granted, they continue to care for and shelter him despite his outrageous actions.

Thus, at some point, Bun-bun will have to face himself, and that's when his story will get downright compelling.

Mr. "Bun-bun is my hero!" Jest

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:48 pm 
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I have to throw in with Mr. Jest here. Although I think Pete always had a sense of the Bun's personality, regardless of how much Pete initially thought to use him. Therefore, I think that lesotheron missed it, when he figures that Bun-bun would be mad that it "worked out". Bun-bun would be mad only if it somehow ended up working out for Santa. Nothing else in the sequence is really relevant to him -- although were he to find out about the Torg-Zoë interaction, I think he'd be inwardly amused -- and likely to come up with some smart-alecky remark to cover it.

Love the lop :bunbun:


Last edited by swmartian on Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:01 pm 
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Okay, I'm going to assume, Jest, that your post sounds like a rebuttal to mine because you're trying to say bun bun has always been this way but hiding it, while mine implies that bun bun has grown into this new personality.

I don't know if that's right, but that's how it sounds.

If so, I'll have to direct you to bun bun's meeting with himself near the end of OU as evidence of personality change. But it has been more gradual than that. The first two years? Flat. And in the third, he shows us the true colors of old bun bun by turning on even his friends. But over the years since, because of little things, he's getting better. He'll never be Torg, oh no. I'd be surprised if he ever got to Gwynn's level of moral vagueness, frankly. But the change is there, nevertheless.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Something just occured to me. Aside from the fact that Bun-bun just ruined Christmas for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of children all for a personal vendetta (classic Bun-bun), how was he able to do what he did?

Think about it, when Santa lost all of the presents, shouldn't time have slowed or stopped to allow him to gather them back up and complete his yearly mission? If Santa and Bun-bun were able to face each other in battle using slowed-time just by "giving in" to it, why wouldn't Santa, on Chirstmas Eve no less, slow or stop time until he could get the holiday back on track?

I understand the reason why Pete allowed Torg to walk off with a PS3 (it made for a nice scene between him and Zoe), but it seems to counter what we already know about how the comic treats Santa and Christmas.

I'm trying to just enjoy the comic and not take it too seriously, but it's a minor annoyance that's nagging the back of my mind.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Technically, it's spot on with how every encounter between santa and bun bun is handled outside of the Holiday War occurance. If anything was anomalous, it's that one.

It could be that the real santa is just so experienced and efficient that he hasn't bothered to 'give in' for decades. Maybe he even hates it, being someone who likes being in control all the time. Him and Bun Bun don't seem that much different, when you get right down to it anyway.

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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:24 pm 
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Maybe he was too angry/upset to be able to give in to the Christmas spirit? It seems you need the proper frame of mind to tap the time expanding bits of that power.

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