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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:31 pm 
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Rysto wrote:
Wait, Easter is exempt from the Right of Caste rules? How do you figure?


Bun Bun actually said so during Holiday wars... if you recall he wasn't compelled to hide eggs the first year, but Kiki did because she felt bad. The second year there was still not Easter Bunny, so Santa made the mecha-easter bunny and convinced the rest of easter's forces to go along with it. Bun Bun finally accepted it the following year, I believe, not realizing what he was getting himself into, and promptly fired all of his staff because they were annoying twits.

I can try and look up comics later, but just don't have time at the moment. But if you recall he clearly didn't understand rite of cast, despite being Easter bunny because he didn't become it instantaniously. He was later warned that killing santa would make him Santa, whether he wanted to or not... and during one of his planning sessions with Bastphomy (post killing Halloween, I believe), he discussed how he didn't HAVE to accept Easter, but would other holidays... which was fine because at that point he'd decided to be the Eater of Holidays :).

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:57 pm 
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Ok, this is a little off-topic but: Basphomy says she was original ruler of Halloween when it meant REAL terror. What's she talking about? Samhain? Lemuria? Hard to gauge whether these would have been times of significant fear or not. The shortening of the days could be seen as a time of dread in general for Sun worshippers, with Samhain marking the beginning of this period. And the concept of being surrounded by evil ghosts isn't exactly comforting... But then again, how fearful would you be, given you knew you and your village/family had a set ritual to cope with these things that had always worked in the past?

I'm struggling to get my head round the chronology.
Egg 1 = just after the fall of Zeus and co. If we don't worry about the switch from Greek to Roman gods then that should be around the start of the dominance of Christianity - say the 2nd century.
Egg 2 = both when Santa was young, and at the start of Basphomy's time. If Basphomy is the spirit of Samhain that should be in the late centuries BC i.e. before the fall of Zeus! Also Mrs Claus' remark about listening to Jingle Bells for 150 years may indicate Santa's reign is only supposed to apply to modern Christmas, so only since the 19th c. (although both she and Santa may have been reigning for a while before Jingle Bells was composed, I suppose).
I think I'm missing something(s) obvious. Can anyone enlighten me?

Other things:
Bun-bun is attracted to nubile young bunnies too - remember Cinny Bun? He just spends more time around humans. I tend to think he's always been a rabbit, although the Eostre=his mother theory is attractive.

Note that Torg specifically asks for a talking animal when he goes to buy Bun-bun, as if it is accepted fact in the Sluggyverse that there are two kinds of animal - regular and semi-anthropomorphised.

I need to re-read Holiday Wars now that I actually like Bun-bun. It's still a strange new feeling for me... :kiki:

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:13 pm 
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If Basphomy is the spirit of Samhain that should be in the late centuries BC i.e. before the fall of Zeus!


Basphomy though might be more a spirit of the holiday back when it was still "All Hallows Eve" and people were genuinely afraid the dead might walk the earth, especially with all the ruin and superstition of Medival Europe. The kind of fear that lead to witch hunts. This however, is still A.D.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:35 pm 
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When Torg goes to buy Bun-Bun, he was chronologically still in his 4th wall phase. Every few strips early on, he would take on the role of narrator and talk to the audience. When he brought Bun-Bun home way back when, he said he had "just what every strip needs."
Also, Fes...How could you not like Bun-Bun? He's the wish-fullfillment self of every nerdboy among us.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:37 pm 
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Goatlord42 wrote:
Rysto wrote:
Wait, Easter is exempt from the Right of Caste rules? How do you figure?


Bun Bun actually said so during Holiday wars... if you recall he wasn't compelled to hide eggs the first year, but Kiki did because she felt bad. The second year there was still not Easter Bunny, so Santa made the mecha-easter bunny and convinced the rest of easter's forces to go along with it. Bun Bun finally accepted it the following year, I believe, not realizing what he was getting himself into, and promptly fired all of his staff because they were annoying twits.

I can try and look up comics later, but just don't have time at the moment. But if you recall he clearly didn't understand rite of cast, despite being Easter bunny because he didn't become it instantaniously. He was later warned that killing santa would make him Santa, whether he wanted to or not... and during one of his planning sessions with Bastphomy (post killing Halloween, I believe), he discussed how he didn't HAVE to accept Easter, but would other holidays... which was fine because at that point he'd decided to be the Eater of Holidays :).


I believe that Christmas is the only Holiday that forces you to accept it. Bun-bun could have slain the General while fighting for Thanksgiving without claiming his power by Right of Caste and Thanksgiving would have failed to exist that year. You'll notice that, for Christmas, he does not annnounce his claim to the Holiday after killing Santa: He just becomes powerful and then asks for a blood transfusion.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:40 pm 
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fes23 wrote:
I'm struggling to get my head round the chronology.
Egg 1 = just after the fall of Zeus and co. If we don't worry about the switch from Greek to Roman gods then that should be around the start of the dominance of Christianity - say the 2nd century.


I'd call it closer to 400 AD. The last pagan Emperor died in 363 after spending his reign trying to revive Roman paganism, so the fall of Zeus and co. is probably a bit later.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:54 pm 
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The Max wrote:
Also, Fes...How could you not like Bun-Bun? He's the wish-fullfillment self of every nerdboy among us.

*Ahem* ...and every geekgirl (well except for the Baywatch obsession)...

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:15 pm 
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Mewtarthio wrote:
I believe that Christmas is the only Holiday that forces you to accept it. Bun-bun could have slain the General while fighting for Thanksgiving without claiming his power by Right of Caste and Thanksgiving would have failed to exist that year. You'll notice that, for Christmas, he does not annnounce his claim to the Holiday after killing Santa: He just becomes powerful and then asks for a blood transfusion.

Exactly.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:03 pm 
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Torg was still breaking the 4th wall when he asked for talking animals, it was more of a throwaway gag at that time, I'm not sure we can really use that as evidence for anything.

I thought that Bun-Bun's stuff came from being genetically modified by present-day Schlock (As opposed to future schlock) same with Kiki and the rest of the animals at the lab.

If this is correct, that may explain his knowledge of current-gen technologies.


Random suggestion I'm writing as I think of it off the top of my head:

I suggest that he got thrown from time into timeless space, got out in the past, (ovum egg used at this point in time) got back into timeless space, got out in the past again, (second egg used) and then finally go to the bar, became bartender, wahlah, first time we see him in Oceans Unmoving...

Or something like that.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:33 pm 
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Rocketman wrote:
How many people have given Bun-bun a bloody nose?

There have been a few.
Santa. Aylee. Cloney. Himself in OU.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:38 pm 
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I wasn't really serious about the bun bun being Kron thing, it was just an idea to be chewed on.

apparently it doesn't taste too good.

I had something else to add, but I forgot it.

I'll be back if I remember.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:26 pm 
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Anonymous Raven wrote:
I thought that Bun-Bun's stuff came from being genetically modified by present-day Schlock (As opposed to future schlock) same with Kiki and the rest of the animals at the lab.

If this is correct, that may explain his knowledge of current-gen technologies.


Bun-bun was explicitly shown to be a talking rabbit as soon as Torg bought him. Even if you disregard everything prior to "The Lab" as non-canon (which requires you to throw out the Sci-Fi Adventure and raises some odd questions), there's still "A Step to the Side" to consider.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:08 am 
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I just looked at the strips surrounding the above link. And I noticed something. When Bun-Bun comments about a potential third him in timeless space, Uncle Time says that would make him a serial offender. He then knocks him back into a bowl of cereal. A simple play on words, or a hint that Bun-Bun was there 3 times?
I don't think so. Odds are that one of the three would know there were three hims. Since neither of these knew, and the third didn't meet them (to our knowledge) it doesn't seem likely.

Oh, and add "A distaste for world domination" to the list of things we know about him. It seems like his destiny, but he doesn't want to (Holiday overlord time excluded). It's possible there's a reason for that.

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:09 am 
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As much as I love mythology/religious history and pondering this stuff, Pete tends to put his own twist on things in the Sluggyverse... so I don't know if we can expect gods/holidays to line up perfectly.

For what its worth though, St. Nicholas was a Turkish Bishop in the 300's (AD/ACE). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_nicholas Also close to the dates people are throwing around for the fall of the Greco/Roman pantheon. Even if Pete put his own mythology into some of it, It would seem a key transition period for the shift between the gods to holiday/saints.

Interestingly enough, in the Christian West the saints have often taken the roles of the gods/goddesses... personifying divinity in very human ways, and often inspiring deep devotion, esspecially amongst the people. And it seems no coincidence that Jesus' mother Mary was actually named "Queen of Heaven," an ancient title for the middle eastern Pagan Goddess. When people ask where the divine feminine is in Christianity, I sorta go, um, under the name of the Goddess, in plain sight? :P

I like the observation that the holidays have been getting softer/commercialized in the sluggyverse... even Santa. You look at that old image of Santa next to Zeus, and he's a whole lot more impressive. In many parts of Europe Santa is still depicted as accomanied by a darker persona, who gives coal or even beatings to naughty children. :P I wonder if Bun Bun does have some pivtol role to play, in bringing balance to the closest thing sluggy seems to have to divinities, who have gotten pretty cheesy/commercialized. And does make one wonder if Pete's saying more than it seems on the surface about how deep mythological/spiritual meaning has become a commodity in our age? :)

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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:34 am 
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Oooh, interesting article about "Father Frost," an elfin/pagan being from Russia/slavic traditions who may have evolved into Santa claus. Good stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Frost

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