Interesting... though Santa's intel network is likely much poorer now that the Black Ops Elves have gone freelance- and we know them to still be loyal to Bun Bun.

I'm not certain Santa even knows who he is. The cocky manner he THOUGHT he could defeat him by throwing him out of time twice suggests his information may be incomplete. Since we know knowledge of the Mokudun pantheon had already degraded into folklore by the time of Egypt, by the fall of Zeus and Santa/Christianity's rise to power in the Medditeranean virtually nothing was likely known by the Holidays who, in my Catalogue of the Gods post I argue somehow inherited many of the ancient gods portfolios in some way.

“His mother may have been a mortal. Like Krig Bun Bun MAY have come from a mortal family, though its not confirmed of any other deities did…”

I was going to point out the same thing. Pete seems to be bending over backward to point out that these are not "god-in-heaven" deities, but more like "actively interacting with humanity, even to the point of sharing family" akin to egyptian god-kings and greek deities (back to the zeus egg etc).

Also, spot patterns are not inherited genetically (they're randomly formed in utero — see articles about cloning calico cats), so yeah, no way that was Bun-bun’s mother in the first place. It’s him.

ppth. I've been trying all week to get this account registered and write this stupid post.

Haha, props for the effort and welcome!

Good read on Pete's development of the ancient gods- although you seem to have pegged the workings of Mokudun well, as parallel examples I'm not clear the Egyptian and Greek Deities left as much possibility for "promotions." In Greece, the Titans and Athenian gods were prior generations to humanity and always in an ontological class above mortals, though they could breed with them to create demigods (not new gods). Even Plato's later ideas of transmigration of souls did not posit humans becoming gods- this idea would only arise in Greco-Roman culture with Alexander and the earliest Roman Emperors, both of whom had to toe a careful line among their own people as the idea was still seen as blastphomy to the traditional religion before that point- though they were able to use it as propaganda quite effectively in their Eastern territories and foreign people, while playing "devout mortal" in their own homelands (technically Alexander, at least claimed to be demigod, not a god, the son of Aphrodite I recall?). Even with Caesar's death, when his adopted heir Augustus encouraged his worship it could not be openly offered until after his death. Later emperors would create a living cult of divine emperors in their own lifetime, but this was a radical change to Roman Polytheism.

Hinduism and Buddhism both allow for the possibility of humans becoming gods or god-like beings, before falling back into Samsara. I could be wrong on Egypt- wasn't Osiris a mortal pharoah at some point? But he's the only one I can think of.

In the Mokadun era, however humans cannot merely be demi-gods, but also perhaps become gods-- I suspect through something similar to the Rite of Caste, or perhaps simply by Kronus' choice in this more peaceful era of the Mokudun Spark.

I'm not sure how scientific Bun Bun's patterns are-depends how much Pete knows about Lops and how much he chooses to consider such detail. Then again, Pete is ussually painfully responsive to reader feedback on points of scientific accuracy. If you could present that point without speccing in the reaction forums, he might take it into account. Then again, I'm not clear Bun Bun's markings have ever been 100% fixed aside from his eyes and the general breakdown of white and grey. Being an obloid body, Pete can get away with some pretty flexible art... and as its confirmed Torg's flanel patterns defy normal geometry and physics, who knows what Pete's working principals for Bun Bun are. :)

Come to think of it, Bun Bun's mouth was only seen once in the entire comic (bRoken), and we still don't know for sure if he has a nose. Love that scene in the pool. Also be interesting to see if Pete's tweeked his fur style at all subtly following his confirmed plastic surgery. I doubt it, but am also tempted to find out as an excuse to Archive-dive.

All said though, despite my difficult accepting a few things initially due to the nature of depicting Deities in a comedic forum, Pete has created quite an insanely complex Theology. Essentially he has multiple levels beginning with an Absent Watchmaker Creator akin to Deist ideas, descending to a Dualistic Life/Death Deity battle akin to Zoroastrianism, then the Mokadun God Pantheons, then a whole host of Demigods and Holidays and Demons. Even if Pete DOESN'T take account of all the religious history we're discussing, he clearly did his homework and thought religion and philosophy through for his universe, way more than Sluggy as a "non-religious" comic on the surface shows.

Not entirely though. Prozoato didn't make Krohnus into a god. The One did: http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/130507

So, relatively hands off, but not entirely. Heck, it's entirely possible that all the gods were blessed by The One, although I suspect we'll get a somewhat more concrete explanation for how they became gods.

I also wonder if we'll ever learn if the DoP's Demon King and Goddess of Good have a similar origin to the gods of DoN.

I think that may be overthinking it. Also, I'm not entirely convinced that the whole Zeus thing really happened the way we've been told. It's quite possible that legends change with time, and the eggs were in fact created by some Mohkadun deity. The technology used is obviously Dunuloa's goose. :)

The change from ruling gods of Mohkadun to the prissy holidays of sluggy present day is obviously the change desired by Kron. Instead of ruling over humans, gods (as what else are the holiday personifications?) are now servants to time and mankind. Given the (still unexplained) importance of gods in time and the fate web protecting the world from the end, it's obvious why someone might create a way to restore the holiday structure in case it was upset.
So holidays aren't so much another level, as the future of godkind.

As for demons, the KZK demons are likely creatures, fragments, or "ascended" mortal servants of the destroyer. I think fragments (after the "destruction" of the embodied KZK by Gwynn) is the most likely. It is still unknown if they act inside or outside the web.
As for the other demons, some are obviously quite simple "mortal" beings, even though they have the ability to upset the web (through magic, or "unauthorized life") - the DOP demons definitely seem like that, as do the DimHenchmen of Pang.

Some demonish entities may live outside the web, but those normally live outside known reality too (the soul merchant demons, the rayths, etc.), so I think are unrelated to sluggy prime mythology.

sorry, to cross-post, but I'm still reeling over this. I'm nearly certain that that knife is Chaz.

Very impressed with catching the connection between the knife from the Shadow play to the sacrificial knife in the temple; that looks way too close to be chance. The similarity to Chaz's "soul appearance" is... I dunno. Maybe. Last we saw the temple, the sword (probably Chaz) was being brought in from the Never, and the knife had been around already -- they're clearly two distinct objects. Maybe the soul is in the knife and it has to get merged with the sword? Or something? I'm dubious, though, b/c the sword shows up as glowing-red already, which only happens when the personality is active.

I also had, until glancing at the first page of this thread, forgotten the part about how Bun-Bun was around when Santa / the Krig used the second Deus ex Ovum. I'm wondering if that happened fairly early after the withdrawal of the Gods from Mokhadun? Although that seems like it conflicts with the idea that there's a period where the Greek pantheon type gods rise, and then the first egg is used after their fall.

I know there's been speculation a couple places that Basphomy is in some way "the dark side of the moon", which might make her a modern incarnation of Dunuloa. Maybe Dunuloa and Sluggy (and Kron?) mutinied against Krohnus' withdrawal from human affairs, and Krohnus, Tempest, and the Krig kicked them out.

The other thing that strikes me today is that Basphomy looks a bit like Chilus, but as with the sword/soul thing, that might just be coincidence.

It's possible that Santa Krig threw him out in *this* storyline the first time.

Not only that, but Rana and Dunaloa being only half-god might mean they still age but at a slower rate than normal humans. And Mrs. Claus is the one that reminds Santa that he said that the last time he threw Bun-Bun out of the tower...

But has the Krig ever actually shown enmity towards Lord Sloghy? If so, this is really good spec. If not, it's just really interesting.

And for those speccing about the knife/Chaz, http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20140317 proves that the knife is NOT Chaz, but something else. But that does beg the question, when has that knife been used before? Since Bun-bun/Sloghy has been around for a while, that knife must also have been around the block. Perhaps it had something to do with the end of the pre-Mokhadun spark?

Yeah, today we've got Chaz and the Sacrificial Knife sitting on the ground right next to each other...

I'm still wondering what the deal is with having heard that the knife was used to kill Bunbun / Sloghi's mother. Something that happened at the end of the previous spark, maybe, that inspired a young bunny to become god of power?

That's kind of what I was thinking, except that there's nothing that says specifically that Sloghy didn't exist pre-Sixth Spark. So I'm suggesting that Bun-bun was a junior god, sort of like Dunaloa/Kron, who filled in for his dead mom in the pantheon when she was killed (maybe secretly, by Symachus?). And also, a lot of people have been suggesting that Bun-bun's mom was the Easter Bunny, so why did Bun-bun have to claim Easter by right of caste? Maybe she was effectively identical to Sloghy in the Sixth Spark pantheon. All we know about her is that she was killed by the sacrifical knife. (And that Kron/Rana/Dunaloa's mom isn't her, thanks to this comic http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/140318 showing her being killed by Chaz) I think that the similarities between Chaz' spirit form and the knife are pure coincidence- Pete may just have decided that that's a cool look.

This isn't necessarily relevant to the current discussion, but I spec that Bun Bun (prime, post-amnesia) will have a pivotal moment with Calix in the future, because he remembers this.