Bun-Bun is actively and violently hostile to the things that in some way harm him or detract from his lifestyle, fundamentally willing to fight for things that are nice or pleasant to him, and indifferent to everything else.

Let's say Zoe is threatened by a mugger in Bun-Bun's presence. Temporarily ignore Zoe's demonstrated ability to take care of herself for purposes of the thought-experiment.

I think we'd see a 'ka-click' moment. But if Riff is in the same situation, he's on his own, because Riff can clearly take care of himself.

Bun-Bun's behavior is incredibly chaotic, but one strong tendency is never to allow irreversible harm to come to his own side. Of course, he defines his own side for himself.

Additionally, the idea of Infinity is extremly subjective. 100 miles for a grown adult in a car is just 100 miles, but for a baby crawling along on its own that same distance is infinite. This kind of simplification comes in handy for making models in physics, and is actually essential to the workings of pretty much all electronic devices.

The nature of infinity is that some infinities can be larger than others (all numbers>all real numbers>all integers>all even integers), but you can never "reach infinity".

Actually, if you want to be really precise, (I'm not sure if you do!), the "amount" of all even integers is the same as all integers. (This is because you can build a 1-to-1 mapping between them; for each number, if you double it, you get an even number, and this covers all even numbers). That is, they are the same kind/size of infinity; the same cardinality. Also, in a similar manner, the amount of all positive integers is the same as all integers. But there are *more* (a larger infinity) real numbers than integers. Ouch, kinda hurts your brain.

Same setup as last time, the first line is a quote from Dolash (see his earlier post for context) and the second is my reply. To make it easier to read I have added [comments] to let you know what "it" is referring to.




-Remember that Bun Bunb once dangled a woman - and her children, for god's sake - over a pool of pirahnas, with every intent of killing them, and in the end left them there to die.
-What Bun Bun did to the family (and friend) of the telemarketer who took him in was bad. The exact extent of the "bad" is debatable. Bun Bun was in horrible condition, he didn't even know who or what he was, and it took a lot of stimulation to snap him out of it. This stimulation and snap are one possible reason why his actions were so extreme. Still, I don't think he really thought it would kill them. If he wanted them dead he would have rigged it to drop them in or dropped them in himself. If Pete said they died from it, I would believe it, but otherwise I think they escaped with their lives. I am not say Bun Bun isn't psychotic, just that he is not evil.
The telemarketer's I was referring to were the ones that were slaughtered in their head office. Bun Bun had told them off, Torg had their number listed on the do not call list, the lady and her children had been left over a pool of piranhas. Is this not warning enough? But no, they had to still call him, and they paid for there insolence with their lives.

-You wish Bun Bun to be a hero, and thus try and construct evidence towars that point
-My point was not to infer that Bun Bun is/was a hero. My point was to point out the facts that seemed to be missing in the statement that Bun Bun was not a real hero. For all I have seen of JJ and his tactics, Pete might be setting Bun Bun up to be a hero (like what was done here). [size=x-small]Or Bun Bun could do a heroic act on purpose incase he gets sent back or as a parting gift. Yeah the gift thing is so not likely, but still…[/size]

-you say that his former crew and the leaf-people were lost to timelessness and now beyond rescue, but let's be honest here, Bun Bun will lose no sleep, feel no remorse, nor even think about saving his crew unless for some reason something happened where he needed them again
-Bun Bun was concerned when Nerd-Boy disappeared and even said so (I think he then beat up Torg and told him to not let it go to his head). If Bun Bun cares about Torg who he merely lives with, wouldn't he care more for his crew, which is obedient and HIS? We have been given vary little insight into Bun Bun's mind, but there is a small amount of information. This points more to a caring Bun Bun who doesn't want to be perceived as week then a heartless monster.

-He is driven not by any compassion but purely and utterly by selfishness.
-If Bun Bun wants something he finds a way to get it. If not he leaves it. His selfless acts may be lacking, but that doesn't mean he isn't nice. He helped Sam with the Kiki/nanite thing, he helped Torg with the Alyee clone, he tried to help Gwynn with her witch and other problems (remember the alphalpha (spelling?) smoothies?).

-You[Trisped] make space for that[compassion], however, reasoning that the crew must be unsaveable, or the telemarketers must have deserved it, or that maybe he does have compassion that we have yet to see come into play - these are behavorial excuses that rely on the lack of evidence rather then it's presence,
-The crew IS un-savable "with the resources he [Bun Bun] currently has." If there is any question of this reread Dr.Viennason's lectures on Timeless Space and restarting people. Then think about the fact that Bun Bun knew the fleet was closing in on him and that he had lost control of the ship. If he ever was to have a problem of conscience on this he would first remember his anger at a certain first mate's attempt at mutiny that result in the atrocity. As I explained above (in this post) the telemarketers I was referring had plenty of warning (If we say the fire is hot, try to stop you from putting your hand in, but you do it anyway and your hand burns off it is your own fault. Don't curse the fire's nature for your own stupidity).

-[continued from line above] you don't believe [Bun Bun is/can be compasionate] this because it is proven but because it hasn't been disproven beyond an utter shadow of a doubt to you yet
-In most case I would agree with you, but I have already enumerated many instances that support my case in both my previous and current post which proves both of us wrong.

-Consider that Dr. Viennason suggests in such a way that there has only been a few generations in Timelessness yet. If each human generation is roughly 25 years, we can guess that all of Timelessness has been squeezed into roughly 100 years - pretty good for all of time everywhere.
-At least 100 years. Before the Teknokons brought their ships it was exceptionally difficult to travel, so it is unknown how many civilizations were transported to Timeless space where they lived for eons before running out of time or just plain dieing off. Maybe many, maybe none. <Wiggle fingers>It's Mysterious</wiggle>

-The matter I spoke of was the cracked chuncks of rock and such that Calix and his village was found on, and probably found in other places as well.
-Ah, yes. That makes sense, thanks.

-My point about Kada saying "You're all taking advantage of a dangerous situation to play pirates?!" was not that scientists shouldn't stoop to such a level, but that all humans everywhere tend to abandon all pretense of law and order if they are cast from it.
-But they are still following and enforcing "law and order," it is just different then what they came from. Bun Bun is the boss/king/leader/rule maker, the crew all has at least one job which they do, and one power (JJ) is trying to gobble up all the others (anyone not with JJ).

-He wouldn't rescue the crew and captives of his old ship unless for some reason he had to/was forced to, let's be honest about that.
-But they were a (seemingly) loyal crew. I think he would rescue them if he could for that reason alone. I admit that he would probably leave the leaf-people though, their mutiny destroyed there worth as time mass and turned Bun Bun's anger against them.

-It appears Blacksoul is employed by John Jacobs for when one of the Laser Sword's crew left a message for him in the Leaf People's village.
-Pete has at least implied (if not stated) that Blacksoul and Bun Bun did not leave on good terms. Blacksoul was probably trying to catch up with Bun Bun so he could extract revenge. Ingles was probably a plant to let Blacksoul know how to find Bun Bun and when a good time to strike would be. The power of Blacksoul might be big, but Bun Bun could still beat him if Blacksoul wasn't careful. Which is what happened.

-Blacksoul could well be a 'Darth Vader' type, a character reconstructed mechanically.
-Didn't think of that. It seemed to me that Pete described them as strate robots, but this might be true too. If nothing else it opens up a big floor for spec

[quote=Simon_Jester]Bun-Bun's behavior is incredibly chaotic, but one strong tendency is never to allow irreversible harm to come to his own side. Of course, he defines his own side for himself.[/quote]
-And anything that he considers his.

-To me, Bun Bun can be most accurately described with the Neutral-Neutral alignment from AD&D. He doesn't go to far out of his way to follow or break laws. He acts main for himself, but is not above acting to the betterment of others (if there is a good enough reason and they ask). He does some good things and some bad. He doesn't go looking for trouble (most of the time), but doesn't let it get away. If he finds something he likes, he will chase it down, otherwise he is content to live without it (like being holiday God and vise-versa with being the Easter Bunny attached to the Ground Hog's shadow).

-what if the Teknokons brought the ships from a dimension that was different then their own? If they found timeless space, they might have also explored other dimensions first. If that was so, they may have found the cheapest boats that would do what they needed and then mass purchase them. I still like the "they are from Kada's time" idea.


True, although if they had a limit to the number of possible numbers the evens would run out before the all integers list. Since infinity is an idea, it doesn't really matter. Was the main reason for the mapping is so you can define the number sets more easily (all-even-numbers=2*all-numbers)? I forget, made for an interesting class though. I still can't figure out what half of it all had to do with a computer science major.

...He dangled a woman and her children over a pool of pirahnas! Do you honestly have to debate that? If anything, this plays into my argument that you are seeking not the most likely morality for Bun Bun but instead seeking a combination of reasons that will give him an alignment you can openly and fully support - as in, you don't want to see him as evil, and give him a none-evil justification even when the evil justification seems more likely.



Neither the law nor most major philosophies of ethics support the belief that it's okay to murder someone so long as you feel they were annoying and insolant.



No doubts there, in there we somewhat agree. Pete is putting him into the literary definition of a hero's role, but I argue that he is not a hero more in the sort of idolizing sort of way - i.e. he should neither be supported nor emulated.



This sort of reasoning is not, I would say, taking the path of least resistance. It is certainly possible that Pete could write into Bun Bun's character a desire to rescue his crew or even some sort of strange, twisted compassion hidden under layers of possesivness, but from the evidence we have so far the far more likely (path-of-least-resistance) reaction to him losing his crew is merely him seeking a replacement crew. When he planned to abandone the old Bloody Bun on the skiff, there were five seats available, and he even went so far as to claim an extra seat for his stuff, asking his crew to fight to the death for the remaining seats. If you need any clearer evidence, look at this.



These are, however, towards his goals or feeding into his ego. Consider that Aylee the clone threatened one of his primary sources of food, valuables, and entertainment as well as was a threat to his status as a powerful and dangerous individual. As for Gwynn, he did NOT help her! He almost had her soul destroyed! Gwynn could just as easily have fallen into that abyss, and I doubt Bun Bun was being the wise sage who somehow knew that she would not.



As the law and most of societal ethics currently stand, blood-fueled rage is not the equal of fire - saying that he should have known better does not make it okay to kill someone. As for his crew, they are admittedly not in a great position (according to one of the grays, a good deal were taken prisoner as well) and Bun Bun does have more pressing concerns, but let's be honest here - what is his plan? Getting out of the dimension as fast as possible, and he won't stick around to see if he can save his old crew. There is no evidence to suggest a rescue is even there on his to-do list.



This I will concede. Timelessness has yet to be thoroughly explored in the comic, and I do hope that - even if it is less-than-popular with some - Pete will consider future endeavours into it. Perhaps as filler?

With the majority of none-Bun issues dealt with, I think it might help to bring the discussion away from that and more back on to the topic of the setting. Are there any other literary observations to be made of this place? Does anyone want to chime in with their theories or potential visions for this new setting?