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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Rreed423 wrote:
Silly Green Monkey wrote:
No, Silverwalker, the Mayflower did not land at Jamestown.


The native Americans had a socialist system, and they did pretty well until Europeans came and ruined everything.



And they were still living in the Stone Age when the rest of the world was late Iron Age to early Industrial Age.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Three thoughts:

1. Re war being a mechanism of advancement. I find it interesting that in the Sluggyverses, war against Aylee-ans led to a magnanimous and generous Schlock who was an effective inventor of great tools that were useful not only in the war, but also very fun technology in a society not at war (e.g., inflatable hoverbikes & space stations). But war against a perceived K'Z'K future (as opposed to K'Z'K himself) led to a paranoid and narcissistic Schlock whose inventions led to the stagnation of the greater society (4U City) or his own destruction in a final fit of selfishness (Sluggy Prime).

2. Re greed being a mechanism of advancement. Most people would not object to an incentive-based economy - particularly one that is fair. What is really missing in the DIA (Dimension of Animas) is the ability to deceive, the ability to rip other people off, the ability to take unfair advantage... Pete appears to be implying that deception is what ultimately drives progress. But does deception really lead to faster development and advancement of a society, or does deception ultimately lead to stagnation (serfdom) and paralysis of a society?

Ultimately we all have traits that we tend to label "positive" and "negative". But "positive" traits can lead to "negative" outcomes, and "negative" traits can produce "positive" outcomes. The key to success is recognizing these apparent conflicts and finding the balance that produces the best outcomes for the most people. Success does not come from choosing one approach and staying the course forever and ever regardless of negative outcomes that occur from undesirable imbalances. Rather, maintaining a productive balance requires constant vigilance and a willingness to modify the present course with appropriate conflicts or compromises when imbalances occur.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:39 pm 
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[Mod Hat On]

All of these discussions about history, technological advancement/stagnation, and economic systems are nice and all so far. So let's keep it that way. If any of it devolves into personal attacks over opinions, or anyone uses this to push a social or political agenda, we will not be above deleting all posts that do not pertain purely to a reaction to the strip.

[Mod Hat Off]

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:37 pm 
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Friday wrote:
Strip for July 17, 2019 (#6)

Apparently Friday has stolen Wednesday's identity.


Communism works poorly for production of material goods. That has been thoroughly proven. Information, knowledge and culture is another matter. I'll have to disagree with Riff on this point. Numbers are fundamentally different from atoms, and this difference has effects all the way up to human behaviour and the structure of societies. Science is driven by curiosity, not greed. Scientific progress happens when scientists cooperate, exchange ideas, and share their results freely so that others can continue building on them.

Corporations motivated by competition fund technical development, but that's usually a matter of gradually refining existing technology. There is always a short-term goal to improve their products. Corporations don't typically fund long-term basic research that may or may not result in scientific breakthroughs. Basic research is mostly funded by government institutions and foundations. Riff is right that capitalism produces faster cars once the first car has been built, but idealism and cooperation are more likely to lead to the discovery of dimensional flux science.

Applying greed to knowledge results in trade secrets, patents and copy-prevention schemes, all of which try to prevent other people from making improvements. Here's an example from the Industrial Revolution: James Watt's rotary steam engines were big, stationary machines for powering factories. Watt's patent prevented others from improving on the design. As soon as the patent expired, Richard Trevithick and Oliver Evans introduced more compact high-pressure steam engines, making steamboats and locomotives possible. In this case greed delayed technological progress.

A successful author can make a living selling manuscripts to publishers, but the profit motive is not the reason why authors write. They write in the hope that others will appreciate their works. This I have read in multiple places by various authors: Money is necessary for paying bills, but what an author really wants is readers. I figure it's the same for artists, musicians et cetera. As a programmer I'm happiest when others use my programs and like them. To scientists, receiving a Nobel prize is a very big thing, not primarily because of the money, but because it's a recognition of their achievement.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Rombobjörn wrote:
Friday wrote:
Strip for July 17, 2019 (#6)

Apparently Friday has stolen Wednesday's identity.
It was long and difficult fight, but We- Friday took back its identity from Wednesday! You no longer need to worry.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:56 am 
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Looking back at the last few strips, it seems Torg and Gwynn are on a different quest, so to speak, than Riff.

Torg's quest seems to involve multiple locations and be somewhat larger in perspective than Riff's goal of getting the DFA fixed.

Sometimes, I wonder why they want to go home, besides that it is home. It's hard to imagine them back there without hC or Oasis as a present or existential threat.

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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:42 am 
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Silverwalker wrote:
endplanets wrote:
And its not like Aristotle or Galileo or Tesla or Einstein were in it for the money.


So Edison is completely replaced with Tesla now, is he? Hollywood bosses really did a number there, presenting Edison as a villain in various movies. He invented the film camera and the invention was stolen from him in Chicago, and the thieves moved to California to set up shop, far from Chicago courts.

Thomas Edison was America's greatest inventor, one of the greatest inventors in the history of mankind. He invented the system for electric lights, turning night into day. He invented the motion-picture camera. Bifocals - the list goes on and on, more than 1,000 patents.

And horribly, he made money from it. The nerve. He should have invented with no thought of profit, like the great inventors in the communist bloc. See how far they got. Not just in inventions, but in day-to-day business and production. Outclassing profit-seeking people like the Wright Brothers and Henry Ford, the inventor of penicillin Alexander Fleming, and the gentlemen Ohm, Volta and Watt.

Columbus, you mention? Who blazed the trail across the Atlantic Ocean. And he did it for personal gain. Money, and fame. Practically every great improvement of human life has been the result of someone who profited from inventing it. A person, in the distant past, or a team in a business, more commonly today. At the same time that they also want to help people.

But people learn in school that "profit" is a dirty word. They hear this from teachers who will never invent anything and whose wages are stagnant, having chosen a static work environment as their priority - not exactly the most reliable people to talk to about how society moves forward.

I don't think the issue with Edison is that he made money. I think the issue people have with him is that they believe (true or not) that he stole credit for inventions he didn't actually make, and didn't do so well with the things that actually were his. It's crediting Tesla as the visionary inventor and Edison as the thief who profited from it. I don't know how true any of that is, it's a debated part of history in certain groups, but you need to make sure to argue about the right thing.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:37 pm 
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randomlanguage wrote:
Torg's quest seems to involve multiple locations and be somewhat larger in perspective than Riff's goal of getting the DFA fixed.

Sometimes, I wonder why they want to go home, besides that it is home. It's hard to imagine them back there without hC or Oasis as a present or existential threat.

Maybe Riff wants the DFA to work so they can escape cleanly the next time a bloodthirsty mob comes after them...

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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:27 am 
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garyfritz wrote:
randomlanguage wrote:
Torg's quest seems to involve multiple locations and be somewhat larger in perspective than Riff's goal of getting the DFA fixed.

Sometimes, I wonder why they want to go home, besides that it is home. It's hard to imagine them back there without hC or Oasis as a present or existential threat.

Maybe Riff wants the DFA to work so they can escape cleanly the next time a bloodthirsty mob comes after them...

True! A reliable piece of equipment is valuable wherever they are trying to go

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