I'm currently rereading the Silmarillion for the maybe fifteenth time. I love talking about LotR, but this is not the place I should do that...I'll just say the Valar are not exactly gods, and their limitations are based on their part in the music of the Ainur... (ok, stopping myself).

Speaking of gods though, the gods in Mokhadun do fit your description. Yet, aren't their actions also part of the fate web? I mean, haven't they become involved (wait, maybe that's spec) Sadly, I'm having trouble accessing the archives in China, so I can't go back and double check.

I agree. I want to know more about what she thinks and what her theories are. After all, what authority does Synthea La'morte (sp?) have on this topic?

Isn't this what Wiccans believe? I thought I remember seeing a Tv show where they explained it like this. Lol.

Anyway. Space and fate makes sense to me. Why build a web to control a vast emptiness? If magic doesn't work there, I guess if means there are little to no threads to pull.

Fate-magic pulls on threads. That's in the name. Magic to change fate. Let's see how they use it, anyway. It doesn't even seem to be important to the plot right now. But we'll see how Pete changes that! Lol

I think I understand what you mean, and I think you're on the right track, but I don't think "laws of nature" is a suitable term either.

For anything to function, it must function within the laws of nature. When some kind of magic works, it's because that fantasy world has laws of nature that make that kind of magic possible. The laws of nature of the Sluggyverse allow for such a thing as a fate web to exist, and once a fate web has been constructed it can be manipulated to make improbable events happen (if Schlock is right). Thus fate magic follows the laws of nature of the Sluggyverse.

I guess that what Pete actually means when Schlock says "science" is the laws of nature of the real world, and "magic" means things that can be done in the Sluggyverse that wouldn't work in the real world. But we can't have Schlock say "the laws of that world on the other side of the fourth wall", so there is definitely a terminology problem.


David Eddings created at least four fantasy worlds with different laws of magic. I assume that you refer to the Morindim and the Karands in the Belgariad/Malloreon series. They summon and subjugate demons, which is very dangerous business. It would be impossibly dangerous if they couldn't trust that their means of controlling the demons work the same way from one day to the next.


Putting the One Ring on your finger makes you invisible, consistently, every time. Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting glow blue whenever there are orcs nearby, quite reliably. The Doors of Durin will open if you say "mellon". The palantíri, the cloaks from Lórien and the Phial of Galadriel each have their specific functions. None of that seems chaotic to me. The reader doesn't learn anything about the underlying laws, but it seems clear to me that some laws must exist for all of these things to work reliably.

If valar, maiar and elves are limited only by their personalities and imagination, then why didn't someone just imagine Sauron powerless and imprisoned? Or why didn't Sauron simply imagine himself supreme ruler of the whole world?

IMHO, one of THE greatest books. He combines a well, well done sci-fi adventure, and an intelligent, well thought out set of philosophical treatises! I still have, and re-read, a copy I got in high-school, over 50 years ago, now.


They are all decreasing in "power". Elves are lower on the hierarchy than Maiar, etc. They have, thus, less power. The Maiar don't consider Middle Earth worth bothering with, with the POSSIBLE exception of Tom Bombadil (no-one really knows just what he is), and Sauron. They still have their rules and limitations. That's why Sauron can't just wish it, and become ruler of all.
Side note: Elves not only ARE magic, they DO magic, of their own sort. Again, with their own rules and limitations. Like Elrond, being a ring wearer of one of the elven rings, can perform very powerful healing, and metalurigical magic (he re-forged Narsil, and healed Frodo). His daughter, Arwen (My middle daughter's name, btw :D ), wasn't wearing an elven ring, and performed LESS powerful healing to help Frodo hold on until they got to Elrond. Galadriel keeps the evil of Sauron at bay, being another wearer of an elven ring, but also has the gift of foresight.
And so on. Remember, the Elves are IN the world, but not entirely, just as they aren't entirely OF the world.
Gad, I could go on and on too...


Do you have any idea how much empty space there is in an atom? Almost entirely empty space is all atoms are, yet the web controls all those atoms on the Earth, inside people, and so on.
And how does Schlock define "in space"? At the end of the atmosphere? He's not there yet on his station. At the end of the earth's gravitational influence? No where near close. You see my problem with his definition of "in space"?
Did he deliver Cappy Bo to Gwynn after her capture? Just a touch of defoliant may have done all kinds of nastyness to him.

Finally, I like my definition of "magic": It's just science we don't yet understand. Remember, camera's are "magic" in parts of the world. So are Zippo lighters. See what I mean?