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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:11 am 
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Quote:
Pied Typer wrote:
That many holes in the hull and explosive decompression should have already torn the ship apart.

Quote:
Zillatain wrote:
What do you mean "should"? Yes, they are rapidly loosing atmosphere through the holes, but I don't see how it would compromise the structural integrity so much for it to rip itself apart.


I can't speak knowledgeably about spacecraft hulls, most especially Sluggy spacecraft. Having said that, I do know for a fact that AIRcraft hulls, even airliners that fly very high, and therefor have a pretty high pressure differential across their hull, are relatively thin. I have seen some of the spacecraft in the Smithsonian, though, and their pressure capsule didn't look too thick. Just like submarines, only inside-out, not outside-in. Same principles apply, though.
It's like a soda can that's sealed. As long as the container's (hull's) integrity is intact, they're amazingly strong. Break that integrity, even a small break, like, say, just for example, a Pik Rifle hole, and, with that great a pressure differential across it, it will shred like a sheet of tissue paper.
Just consider the Hawaiian Airlines 737 some years back. One hatch left cracked open, and a fair percentage of the hull vanished. I believe it took a flight attendant and a passenger or two with it.
I would think that with the Pik Rifle holes in the Musky's hull, it would have torn asunder pretty fast. Even with the lower absolute pressure they keep spacecraft under.
R-I-I-I-I-I-P-p-p-p...

Quote:
I just assumed he meant Riff stopped accelerating. Which means he is still going to miss what he was aiming for.

Not necessarily. If he had already established his trajectory correctly he'll still get there, just not as soon as he hoped. He may need to do a correction burn or two, though, to zero in just perfectly. And then there's the deceleration, fine tuning the docking, etc...
Tail chases don't work well in orbit. Even the slightest acceleration along the orbital vector, positive or negative, will affect the orbital altitude. The faster you go the higher you go. Relative to the Earth.
Just a thought. I get so few...

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:21 am 
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The Aloha Airlines plane had more than just a "small crack". It had corrosion, metal fatigue, age, and lax maintenance that combined together and contributed to it finally giving up. Even with a huge chunk of the top of the plane gone, it still stayed together enough that the pilot was able to land the thing. Okay, yes it was only still holding together because of the floor, but that actually shows that even with everything that happened, planes are much tougher than people think. They have to be, or no way they would ever survive routine take-offs, landing, and weather.

A spacecraft has to be tougher than that actually. It is put through even more stress than a plane. Also the soda can analogy doesn't work. If you punch a bunch of holes in a pressurized can, all you will end up with is a mess and an intact can with a bunch of holes in it. It's not like a rubber balloon where the only thing holding it in that shape is because of the air inside it.

As for why I say Riff's ship will miss the target, it's precisely because they are in orbit.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Yeah there's a Wikipedia page mentioning myths about explosive decompression. While it's not an absolutely reliable source, the physics here make sense. Pressure-wise there isn't that huge of a difference between a normal atmosphere and space (only 1 atm of difference). If you're trying to breathe you can't, and you can definitely get lung damage and other effects, but it's not the same pressure difference as being at the bottom of the ocean, for example. So nobody and nothing should be exploding here, probably.

On the other hand, you might expect the leaking air to cause the ship to move and/or spin until it runs out. I'm not sure how great this effect would be, though, without actually doing math. The spaceship is probably actually quite heavy compared to the air, though, so maybe the effect is minor and explains the spinning Frog sees.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:14 pm 
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balthazar wrote:
They still have a pik-rifle, and I'm pretty sure Riff's inflatable laser canon made it aboard with Chaz and the omni-taser.

Mater-class shuttles are equipped with pik-rifles. Where was anything said about armaments aboard Musky-class shuttles?


I have several thoughts about this line:
Quote:
Torg you have have seconds to duct-tape the holes in her leg and then the holes in her suit!

  1. I'm not sure whether the second "have" was supposed to be a number or whether it should just be removed, but I actually think a few (very few) minutes of vacuum is survivable.
  2. I think "her" probably refers to Biyu Daiyu, but Oasis also has holes in her leg and her suit (and also in her arm).
  3. I don't see how anything can be done about either woman's wounds without taking off their suits, and that seems very difficult to do within the few minutes they can survive without air.
  4. I seriously doubt that duct tape can form an acceptable pressure seal.


On another note: Nothing bothered Sasha. Kusari always came across as emotionless. But shooting holes in the shuttle like that, that's going to literally make her blood boil.

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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:19 am 
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Quote:
(only 1 atm of difference).

ONLY??
Ok, let's think. 14.7 PSI. How many square inches do you suppose the inside of the Musky's pressure hull is? I'm no good at estimating size like that, but let's just say, as an easy number to use, that there are about 1000 square inches. Does that sound reasonable?
So, you have 14.7 * 1000 = 14,700 total force, measured in lbs., exerted on the inside of the pressure hull. That's total.
Now, make 3 holes in it. You think they wouldn't tear the hull? Unless they are perfect circles, and the hull materiel is very strong.
I used to work on a balloon, called an Aerostat. 71 meter long, carried a radar under it. No internal structure at all. Just held in shape by the internal pressure. You could walk on top of it, and it felt as firm as the ground beneath your feet. The internal pressure? Not quite 2 IWG. That's .004 PSI. Enough to support any number of people that you wanted to put on top of it comfortably, enough that the "self destruct" system just needed to burn a small strip in the hull. It would then tear it's self apart.

Even a "small" amount of pressure, multiplied by the area it's applied to, has a huge effect.

Yes, the Musky now has holes in it, and the air is rushing out. Even if it holds together somehow, the air exiting through the holes would apply thrust to the Musky. But with the holes in opposition to one another as they are, that thrust would tend to cancel out. Unless the entrance holes are bigger than the exit holes. Then you'd get differential thrust applied.

I can't wait to see what happens. Will the hull tear? Will they all suffocate? Will they have enough duct tape to seal the holes in the suits AND the hull?? I won't even try to guess. I am not qualified to guess in the Sluggyverse :D

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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:29 am 
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Rombobjörn wrote:
I seriously doubt that duct tape can form an acceptable pressure seal.

I think the Mythbusters would beg to differ with that.

Dilvish wrote:
Now, make 3 holes in it. You think they wouldn't tear the hull? Unless they are perfect circles, and the hull materiel is very strong.

That's the thing with pressure: it's not like all those 7 tons are going to be completely focused on pushing all the air out of those holes. You're only going to get the pressure times the area of the hole.

Dilvish wrote:
I used to work on a balloon, called an Aerostat. 71 meter long, carried a radar under it. No internal structure at all. Just held in shape by the internal pressure. You could walk on top of it, and it felt as firm as the ground beneath your feet. The internal pressure? Not quite 2 IWG. That's .004 PSI. Enough to support any number of people that you wanted to put on top of it comfortably, enough that the "self destruct" system just needed to burn a small strip in the hull. It would then tear it's self apart.

Alright, this got my skepticism going.

So, it turns out that that pressure would support, in total, about 10 tons.
However, if you estimate a typical shoe as a 1' by 5" rectangle, then it would support less than half a pound before depressing beneath your feet. That's hardly "as firm as the ground".

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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:15 pm 
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I think an aerostat is more useful as a model of the XT-34 than as a model of the Musky-5. I don't know how much a real space shuttle would be damaged by a hull breach, but I think it's likely that, unlike Dilvish's aerostat, the Musky-5 does have internal structure that keeps it from flying apart entirely.

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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:56 am 
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Quote:
That's hardly "as firm as the ground".

Ok, it might have been just a teensy bit bouncy. Not like a Bouncy Castle bouncy, but enough to put a spring in your step. Great to help a crew after a long night of working, recovering the balloon, stuff like that. It would still support the entire complement of the site at one time, if we added a touch of helium. Plenty of room too. 71 meters is huge! Thanks to any diety you care to name that I only had to go on top once in my career.
I hate heights. Ok, I fear them. Ok, ok, I fear the sudden stop at the bottom if I fall from a height...
The material is pretty stiff, too, compared to a sheet, or the material of a Bouncy Castle. It spreads weight a bit. Your math presumes a very flexible, or soft, fabric. Think of holding a bunch of badly over-starched shirts together in a tight stack. Like that.

Oh dear! I most humbly apologize to the word replacers. I didn't notice the typo on "SHIRTS" until it had posted. I fixed it asap. Again, my apologies to all and sundry.

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